veetwin

Half of me now wants to test drive the 6MT, and the other half not (at the expense of selling the PDK!)!!!

I think the PDK back in 2009 was the revelation of DCTs at the time (over previous Semi-Auto trannys, such as SMG 1, 2, etc.) and so most saw PDK as a huge positive over 6MT (faster smoother shifting, less human errors). With the current EV movement and legislation against ICE coming our way across different countries, the psychology of owning the most pure driving experience, the 6MT, and any manual transmission in sports cars, has made a strong argument for purity and prices reflect that. Thats why I think long-term prices 'may' balance back out as there will be people who want to buy a PDK for their use-case. I understand that 997.2 in either transmission was the lowest build quantity of all the models due to 2008 crash, so either transmission would hold some residual strength.

I read that the 997 would likely be the next 964, 993 from a long-term residuals standpoint, over say 996 and 991. I could be very wrong in my thinking, though

850tgul

I think the secret is out with the 997 and has been for a few years. It's an overused term but it does seem to be the "sweet spot" among the liquid cooled 911s. It's essentially an evolution of the 996 chassis, with better styling (subjective), a better interior, and better engines (997.2, anyway). It's smaller and more raw than the 991 with the same engines as the 991.1. The 991.2 switching to turbos makes for a VERY different driving experience than an naturally aspirated 911.

I have noticed more love for the 991.1 cars lately as they are the last of the NA Carreras but, to me, you can get the same engine in the smaller and better looking 997.2.

So, if the 997 overall is the sweet spot, then the 997.2 specifically has to be the goldilocks car.

Busta Rib

Like you I went from a .2 GT3 to a Carrera, but in my case a GTS. The performance and driving experience delta between a GT3 and Carrera (no matter how highly modified) is significant, but as you mentioned, the value is not there. Are you really getting $50-100K more value in a GT3? I don't think so but that is subjective. My GT3 was the best sports car I've owned and driven, but it is not ideal for all-around driving. You have to drive it like you stole it to get into the zone. It doesn't like to be driven like a normal street car. The clutch is heavy, transmission is precise but stiff, lightweight flywheel rattles, and under 4000 RPM, the motor is not very responsive. However, the howl of the engine above 5000 RPM is sublime and incomparable.

Back to the future of the Carrera market: in normal driving, the performance delta between a 3.6 and 3.8 is negligible, which makes a base Carrera a terrific value. You have to really flog a 3.8 to notice a difference in power. PDK vs manual is purely driver preference and subjective. That said, I fall into the camp that the price premium for a manual will always be baked into pricing. It's a function of supply/demand economics and the romanticism of the manual driving experience that is quickly dying out and fading away. Moving forward, I believe in the hype that certain 997s will follow the appreciation path of 964s and 993s. In the watercooled world, the optics, smaller dimensions than 991/992, and hydraulic steering are big differentiators that will continue to attract enthusiasts and keep demand high.

JFD997

A friend was searching for 7.1s above 60k miles (budget constraint) and paid for 4 PPIs that all showed bore scoring, so he grew frustrated & settled on an E92 M3 last month with all the regular preventive stuff done. Seems this problem will only grow with time and perhaps result in even more negative attention on forums/Facebook/YouTube steering folks away? I’ve owned two 7.1s and would do it again if the right spec came up, but wouldn’t be my first choice unless a prior owner made upgrades.

7.2s will continue to shine as these cars age, and maybe in 10 years will close the gap with 993s of like models? Need to find my keeper 7.2 Turbo.

Ericson38

I actually think you are correct. The bore score chances with a used 997.1 that someone else just sold, who got it from someone else (lets say 4 previous owners).....is somewhere between 25-50% I think.

On the other hand, if I can get our two Audi EA839 turbo V-6s to 75K miles without a single engine/transmission related problem (2019 Panamera/2023 Cayenne) and burning maybe a qt per 4K miles, like my 2006 997.1 3.6 MT has, then, well, that's something too.

grgallo

Obviously future of the market predictions are next to impossible to get right. But, looking at the current market can be interesting, for example, we see a lot of comments that the market is softening and only/usually the rare, low mileage, desirable optioned variants within a model range outperform the rest of the available cars. That's now not 1 or 2 years ago (everything was very expensive) and that's not the future.

I digress but will return with a 997 question: the 987.2 Spyder market currently says a similar mileage, similar condition, color combination, manual, LWB car will bring a $15K-20K premium over a PDK, sport seat optioned car. Will that hold in the future? If there are less manual capable individuals looking for comfort, then the script might get flipped?

Here's my 997 market question do you agree or not and why with the review in Excellence magazine, #305, December 2023 that values a 2009-12 excellent condition Carrera 4S Coupe at $25K over the same car except model year 2006-08?

Kineticdg

My prediction is that most predictions will continue to be wrong. Who predicted Covid, and how it played out? This century has seen three massive hits to the economy that surprised pretty much everyone, and caused dire predictions about our recovery that also proved to be wrong. So the 997 market will skyrocket, collapse or something in between - that’s my prediction and I’m sticking with it.

Graufuchs

That's the most accurate response. Its anyone's guess. However it is entertaining to predict what the future holds.

If it goes up significantly, I may have a chance to get into an older 993/964/G-body without losing my shirt. If it goes down significantly, I will turn my backyard into a 997 junkyard. Either way the lemonade will taste good.

alfetta

I bought a nice blue 89 cab with 60k miles in 1999 for $52k in today's dollars and sold it in 2010 for $20,500 in 2023 money, 99k miles. Today that car would be about $58-60k assuming no significant additional mileage.

GT3twenty10

COVID was the main “everything upside down” moment, but I think the EV is also contributing to the “holy-chit” there eventually not going to make ice cars so I should buy before it’s to late”, but that’s across the board… agree tho, there will be peaks and valleys on these values

Petza914

I don't think that delta is accurate. For like optioned and model cars, I think it's closer to $10k

GT3twenty10

if your asking if an 06 C4S is 25k cheaper than a 2012 997.2 C4S, I bet it’s pretty close… a few things depending but semi close yes

Petza914

I don't think so. I think a .1 S MT with 40-60k miles sells for $43-$48 and a .2 sells for $55-$62 and doesn't really matter if it's a 2S or a 4S. We haven't see a good .1S sell for under low $40s in a while, at least not one you'd want to own or one that had really high miles. If the delta was really $25k, people would be buying all the .1Ss they could find and having the engines rebuilt as 4.0s for $25k to end up with a superior final product with 0 chance of bore scoring and higher performance. The market preference is still for .2s which means the delta between them is not equivalent to the cost of a Nickasil Engine rebuild yet.

workhurts

997.2 vs 997.1 could be a 1 year gap or a 6 year gap. That has to factor in to some degree.

GT3twenty10

that’s why I compared an 06-12… I’ve seen .1’s for 40k and .2’s for 65-75k… not sure if they sold for that, but I’m sure BaT has some of that documentation