Wayne Smith

Yep, all of this and a bit more. If you were selling an older car and someone wanted to yank the bumper, mufflers, heat shields, coils, and plugs ... any of which could be rusted or baked resulting in damaged parts needing to be replaced, would you say yes? I wouldn't when I could point to metallurgy change and reliability history, unless I had guarantees from the tech that everything would be returned to starting condition with no charge to me. Do you trust someone else's tech?

Additionally, anyone who knows anything realizes that the seldom seen failure mode on the 9A1 motor is cold seizing rather than bore scoring. And this can only be seen by going in through the oil pan. Yeah, I'm not authorizing that procedure. Especially for something as rare as hen's teeth.

PritchardHill

@RavenDog you can use this as an estimate of what the BAT crowd thinks of higher mileage 997.2. Add some dollars on top for yours being an S and 6speed.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...rera-coupe-11/

groovzilla

My intent was not to start another Bore Scoring war. Just giving helpful information to a prospective buyer.
And I understand the 997.2 owners think they have the Holy Grail but sorry to inform you 997.2 engines are showing up with Bore Scoring much more these days now that higer miles have been attained. This is old news.

Also am I missing something here??
During any of the (7) 997.1's I had Bore Scope Inspected, I don't ever remember the rear bumper or the mufflers being removed?? Only thing I remember being removed are the heat shields and coils and of course plugs
Why would the Bumper and mufflers be required to be removed on a 997.2??
The average cost for the Bore Scope Inspecting thru Spark Plug Holes was an additional $300 added to cost of PPI
I'll take the $300 insurance policy any day of the week. And I suggest any 997.1 or 997,2 buyer do the same.

Here's my 2006 C4 car on rack at Aker's Porsche during Bore Scope Inspection - Rear bumper and Mufflers not removed:

sabotaged

This is off topic IMO - the original poster was asking for market value for the 997.2 they are thinking of *selling*. It would be a waste of money as a seller to bore scope a 997.2 before selling.

James said it best:

groovzilla

OP hasn't been seen in 2 days - Probably could care less. And I doubt you have much if any experience buying or selling 997's?

I am fairly experienced in the process of buying Porsche's for 37 years. Determining the Market Value for a 120K 997 will depend on condition of the engine as well as overall condition/how well serviced/etc. There's nothing more disappointing like getting amped up buying a 997 and having the news the cylinders are Scored.
Spending $300 on a Bore Scope Inspection with excellent photo results is IMO and will no doubt increase the asking price and give buyers peace of mind and have the sale go a hell of a lot smoother.
My encouraging a Bore Scope Inspection is great advice and skilled/seasoned buyers or sellers would agree..
OR
Roll the dice ---->I could really care less, however Bore Scope Inspection from Spark Plug Holes has saved my *** on 4 997 purchases in the past 3 years. All 4 were 997S cars with 70-90K miles on them and all 4 had bad scoring but started/ran/drove/idled well with no smoking or any hints of scoring.

And the room weant dead with my question as to why a 997.2 engine being Scoped thru Spark Plug holes would require rear bumper and mufflers removed ---->997.1 engines doen't require this.
Can anyone confirm this or explain why??

Petza914

I would never let a buyer scope.my car from the sump. Installing a simp properly requires curing time for the sealant, that very little sealant be used, and that I be dobe right. My car also has a deep sump with a windage tray so there are double the sealing surface for someone to mess up and crate a leak or use too much sealant and have it break loose and clog some of the oil pickup strainer holes.

I've never found a Porsche Tech that does things as well as I do and as previously mentioned the buyer pool is huge and mostly uninformed about the stuff we know here so really no risk of the car not selling to someone who doesn't want to scope it.

A scope through the plug holes is much less risky for creating future issues.

A 997.2 sump plate is different situation as it has a permanent seal on it, so less risk there.

TommyV44

These threads are so redundant! Please!

Petza914

997s are 15 or more years old now. I'd bet there's virtually nothing that hadn't been covered and is findable via a Google search. Should we just shut down the forum?

JamesBaxter

Sorry groov, gonna chime in again and disagree. Every example you’ve given in your buying history has been a 997.1. You argue that bore scoring is showing up “more” in 997.2s but the data just doesn’t show it’s a real concern. Is it impossible? No. Is it a likely risk like the 997.1s? Also no. Given the incident rate, it’s not worth exploring. May as well check rod bearings in a B58 engine because a prior gen and completely different engine had rod bearing issues.

groovzilla

We can agree to disagree - BTW why does rear bumper and muffler have to be removed in order to do a Spark Plug BS on a 997.2 engine?? Still nobody who claims it needs to be done has explained?

Wayne Smith

Removing the heat shields and rear plugs on the 9A1 motor requires muffler removal. While the mufflers can be removed without removing the rear bumper, removing the bumper is pretty much SOP since there is a specific bolt that is hard to get to otherwise. And if the bolts are rusted, good luck. There are lots of DIYs written up on plug changes on the 9A1 motor. This isn't a new revelation.

In 9 years of tracking I've read of one case of bore score that was, after examination, most likely cold seizure. There have been 4 cases stated from Baz at Hartco, all of which were determined to be cold seizure.

These failures have been traced to a few blocks that suffered casting problems. The failures occur early in life or most likely not at all. And with seizure, there is little question about the problem with no need to tear things apart to know it.

If you do pull things apart anyway cold seizure occurs below the piston skirt near the bottom of the cylinder. It will not be visible from above. So on a 997.2 a bore scope doesn't mean much. Instead you need to pull the oil pan and go in from before. But because of the closed deck design this is very difficult.

Read the papers offered from Hartco if you won't believe me.

Yeah, scope a 997.1 if the seller is willing to agree, but save your time on a 997.2, regardless of the miles.

JamesBaxter

I don't know if it "needs" to be removed, but I did my plugs 2 months ago (along with changing my mufflers and center bypass) and took the rear bumper off. Maybe there are dexterous people out there that can take all the bolts off without removing the bumper and exhaust, but I couldn't. Everything needed to come off to do the plugs.

carguy999

While we're on the subject, I've noticed a dip in 997.1 prices. What do you guys think a 997.1 2005 with 60k on it, Carrera 2 manual with full leather would be worth market? I bought for 42.5 last summer and have since done as much service as I could do so good records since I picked it up. I've put about 15k into it all in so I'm probably way over what it's worth.. about 57k all in. I'm probably better off keeping for a long time

r_towle

I probably should have read up before changing my plugs.
all drivers side, piece of cake
passenger side two front plugs, easy
passenger side rear took me 30 minutes with all sorts of socket wrench extensions and swivels and basically everything I had …..I finally got it.

it was just another reason I want to smack a Porsche engineer.

To the OP
PPI whatever you get near buying.
300 for scoping so you know will save you sleepless nights.

groovzilla

-Early build date 2005 gonna be a small hit because of the dramatic IMS fear mongers. (Better if it's a later 2005 (post April 2005 build date) and it has the removable/serviceable IMS Bearing
-MT A++
-Base 3.6L engine better in eyes of fear mongers due to less % of Bore Scoring than ther "S" 3.8L which is more prone.
-You spent $15K which is steep, so assuming it has a new clutch/Brakes/Water Pump/Thermostate and all up to date services and if it's in Excellent Condition inside and out, I would guess a Market Value of $42-$43K