The 991 Carrera T weighs in at 3142 lbs and 997S is 3075lbs.
I would bet heavy there is no way you would be able to feel the 67lb difference.
BUT the 991 is a larger car.
Have you driven a 991? Have you felt the ride or compared the Power Steering Assist to the 997S steering?

 

I am curious as to what the top 3 lightest wheels are for the 997. Factory or otherwise.

 

Too many variables. Take a base 997.2, pack 50lbs of luggage in the frunk. Then take it out and tell me you can't feel the difference?

 

I am extremely skeptical any amateur driver can discern a 50lb difference in a 3000+ lb 997.
Automotive fuel weighs approx 6 lb/gal.
8.5 gallons of gas is 50 lbs...
Does anyone drive around with less than half a tank to "feel" better handling on real world roads?

Strikes me as absurd. My car feels exactly the same with a passenger or an empty right seat- at the limit on demanding real world mountain/canyon roads. Even on a track, any lap time advantage would be negated by taking a bad line through one corner or braking too early into one turn.

To another post above:

997 OEM wheels are heavy compared to many aftermarket form flow and forged examples.

I've extensively researched CL wheel options for a wide body 997.2:

The OEM Fuchsfelge forged RS Spyder wheels on the 997.2 TT and GTS are heavier than form flow OZ Ultraleggeras.

The OEM 997.2 GT3, GT3RS and GT2 RS forged CL wheels, while beautiful, are heavier than forged OZ Superforgiattas.

Forged versions of more expensive Forgeline/BBS/HRE wheels are even lighter still- as are other manufacturers like Augment, Ruger, BC Forged, etc., etc.

Lots of options, but my personal priority would be saving unsprung weight rather than fixating on removing features like comfortable/adjustable front seats, AC, PCM, rear seats or door handle pulls. The Sharkwerks X-pipe saves some weight over the OEM center muffler and the DSC box weighs in same as OEM PASM unit- so those two mods are unassailable.

 

Yes it’s around 20 lbs for the seats, a bit less if you just take the backs out

 

like i said, have you tried driving a 997.2 of any variant, pack 50 lbs of weight in the frunk and tell me you can't feel the difference? there are always people say the average driver cannot feel 50 lbs of weight on the street. i am average at "best" and i can definitely feel the difference.

and no, no one drives around with 1/4 tank just for performance but that's not the point of discussion.

back to my earlier comment - if you can't feel the difference with a passenger, its either i'm overly sensitive or you are numb.

 

The 50lbs of extra weigh is not concentrated in front front trunk. It is weigh that is distributed throughout the vehicle.
So yes I would bet heavy most drivers would never be able to tell the weight difference.
Has OP even driven a 991?? Has he felt the Power Steering Assist and size difference of the 991 compared to 997?

 

I like what you are doing, had the same thoughts pop in my head as well in similar fashion, as I have a base 3.6 Manual with minimal options (sport seat with P logo and red belts). I was thinking along the lines of a Carrera RS theme, so drop the 2 side mufflers (~30 lbs off the tail), mod the center muffler to incorporate a H pipe to tie both banks of exhaust, aluminum doors (~15 lbs combined savings) say from a Cayman R, Turbo or GT3 variant (may require painting), I like the sport seats I have, mostly manual, but power tilt (not sure why, should have been manual), can do both relax and spirited. Got me 245mm front with 305mm rear rubber setup for grip in 19 sizes with stock GT3ish camber setting. 18" ride better and lighter (say combined with tires ~20 lbs less overall), and did consider the 996 MY02 BBS thin five spoke that was a factory option, but they tend to bend easily. I actually run a mini spare tire in the frunk, as I like the added weight, plus I like the feel of the car with a full tank to half of gas, I don't like a light front, still getting used to the 911 weight balance... I was also dreaming if I ever had to do an engine overhaul, as we have the stroked 9A1 motor, install the larger 3.8 pistons and that would get it to 4L, maybe a cams from the GTS or GT3 if it fits (no clue), and a 991.2 GT3 intake manifold with throttle body... I don't need more power (just a want). I would like it to pull past the 6500 RPM like say the GTS motors, but then I just shifter earlier to keep the over rev safe... on the brake side of things, we have the lightest brake setup I believe, yah they are small, would do pads first to start. I am keeping my rotors on the small side as I have a 17" spare, any larger brake would null that option... I am considering the radio delete (~20 lbs), as one of the owners did the bose 3.0 upgrade on the car, and I have a sub in the back... happy modding, we all need to be careful of falling into that rabbit hole...

 

For the practical minded - just don't fill-up more than 1/2 of a tank of gas, and you'll save 50lbs right there.

 

I always thought my somewhat rare spec base 997.2 was like a predecessor to the 991.2 Carrera T. It had sport chrono (rare, but not incredibly rare on a base) and an LSD (pretty dang rare for a base). It was also a coupe and 6MT.

I ended up removing the back seats, upgrading the suspension, and putting a numeric in and it added up to a fantastic car that was just the right amount of raw for me.

Add in some sports seats and some more aggressive gearing and you more or less have the T formula without going to the extremes of lightweight glass, etc.

 

I will pat myself on the back and say the build on my car is very much Carrera T like
2011 3.6 coupe, 6M w/SSK, SPASM w/LSD, Sport Bucket seats, Sport Chrono, 19" S wheels, and Sport design front bumper. All factory

No PSE, but I do have a Fabspeed setup and the IPD plenum. Also added DSC box and some more alcantera inside.

 

Hi folks,

I think we've gotten awfully hung up on whether you can feel a 50-lbs weight difference or not.

But I'd argue any weight savings in the 991.2 Carrera T (over the base) was the least important attribute of that model.

Hexagon said the T was a marketing exercise, and I agree. But it's not without some pretty strong appeal...

It was a packaged set of GT-like 'experiential' features & options on a back-to-basics car, at a reasonable price (by Porsche standards). Like the GTS is over the S (when correctly optioned).

The T had things like:
-

• CF bucket seats (optional) - I don't believe they were available on non-GT cars at the time
• Shorter final drive ratio - that was an interesting one
• Sports PASM (SPASM)
• PSE
• Thinner glass
• Less sound deadening

Those last two items did save a small amount of weight, and I'm not arguing that saving weight isn't good.

But their real benefit was to enhance the experience of driving the car, by adding some rawness.


To the OPs original question, on how to build a 'T' version of a 997 without something crazy like changing gear ratios in the transmission...
-

• Gotta be manual (and this is coming from a PDK guy) - optioning a PDK on a T was totally against the ethos of back-to-basics
• New seats - I'd go aftermarket Recaro buckets (with houndstooth inserts for the win!)
• Gotta have a suspension upgrade, including control arms, bushings, etc. - I think this is critical to replicate the experience of the T
• Aftermarket engine and/or transmission mounts
• SSK
• PSE or equivalent (Fister, etc.)
• Pull the rear seats and remove sound deadening for additional engine/induction/etc. noise
• Thinner glass from the 997 GT3 RS... maybe...

Any weight savings with the above is additional upside, but I think (IMO) the real essence of the T is the suspension, the seats, etc.

Karl.

PS: When Car and Driver measured the weights of 991.2 Carrera vs the T, they saw weight savings of less than 20-lbs:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...eration-specs/

PPS: There's a company in the UK called RPM Technik, and they've modified 997.1 Carreras to enhance the experience. Worth taking a look for additional ideas...

 

It is Saturday. I am off work and just relaxing with my dogs between storms and thought about this thread.

This other thread is my favorite thread on considering lightweight options for the 911R:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...ispreloading=1

Besides the weight savings being minimal discussion, I do like the idea of simplifying any car. If this makes the car lighter, that is a bonus.

IDK if it came up but the OEM wheels are SUPER heavy, even on the GT3s. I think my OEM GT3 wheels are HEAVIER than the OEM Lobsters even!! PCCB (or similar aftermarket) and BBS or HRE or similar lightweight forged wheels would be a massive change in the unsprung weight of the car. With a LW clutch/flywheel option, you could cut down a lot of unsprung weight. If you were thinking of a non daily, you can add a host of LW suspension components here too (i.e. dog bones, arms, and etc.).

LW glass and RS hood, CF roof, and etc... might be prohibitively expensive but it would be such a cool find just to put all the lightweight parts possible on IMO. It is minimal but gutting the frunk, and ripping out everything you can inside would also make the car louder and very slightly lighter.

I never got why people get a 991.2 T and then do not get the MT, PCCB, and LWB. The 992 T makes less sense to me if you cannot option with LWB and PCCB currently. To add, I also think the best T and GTS models would be base cars with GT3 suspension + LW options. The reason I mention this is because in the 997, the GT3 suspension is an easy swap but you can also buy the damptronics from bilstein, or get something like KW clubsport 3-ways and delete all PASM and associated wiring. Last, you could rip out 100% of the wiring associated with unused items and add RS doorcards or custom flat doorcards with a LW carpet option.

I want my C2S to be dentist spec with GT3 suspension to make my own 997.1 ultimate Carrera spec but I have stripped out cars before to make them more simple and lighter for a track/daily driver or to just simplify an old car to minimize mechanical drama.

However, if I were going to try to do a LW build for the track/daily 997 without getting serious enough to worry on a cage, it would be easy to DIY/hire some people to:

1. GUT the frunk and take every single thing and wire out I could including everything but the lightest headlights (i.e. fog light ducts or block offs). I would even include getting rid of the big bumpers under the bumper covers and considering having someone fab lighter tube bash bar in the front and back depending on how much time I would spend in regular traffic. This includes totally gutting the bumpers of anything but the necessary material to make it pass inspection and still work aero wise depending on use. Delete heater/ac all materials and etc. It is shocking how much this stuff weighs but also how much people complain that they should not have done this after the fact, lol. In any case, taking things off is the easy part.
2. Strip the interior including all the wiring for even stuff like the garage door opener and etc (i.e. all mirrors and get the manual cup side mirrors). All wires and looms that are unnecessary. Get a GT or cup steering wheel, double din delete shelf, LWB or similar, strip everything behind the driver and replace with LW carpet. Scrape out all the crap inside under the carpets and panels. Remove the headliner and everything possible under it. I would have LW 997 GT3RS windows, door cards, and anything else I could get a hold of installed but again, that might be WILD expensive.
3. Add LW or LWCF parts on the hood, roof, and anything else I could source that wasn't silly expensive and that a body shop could install without too much stress.
4. PCCB or similar + LW Forged wheels.
5. remove all the extra heavy stuff possible from the back related to the exhaust + get the lightest exhaust solution I could live with etc...
6. Delete the engine cover of any active aero (+wiring) and replace with a LW option.

Obviously, you are asking for a T, touring, street car, and not a track car. A lot of what I said is from doing this to a couple Hondas and a couple EVOs. Those 4 cars were street cars but after doing 3 cars, I started to add things back when daily driving got too tedious, so you might not want to go full on track rat status (i.e. I would keep carpet and headliner and some of the trim if I ever stripped down a daily driver again)...my last EVO was minimalist perfection with things like AC and other creature comforts needed in SoCal.

IDK if this is relevant or helpful but I was hanging out and thinking about this thread, so these are just some random thoughts.

TL;DR VERSION: Get a minivan.

 

You're probably correct.
I was just thinking of the rear seat BOTTOMS, not the backs

 

LOL. Obviously, you da man.

Yup, I have 25K of recreational miles in a 2011 997.2 GTS. Zero commute or grocery runs- mostly canyons and mountains.

And, no, I don't "feel" a handling difference between a fully loaded of empty frunk...or a full vs half tank of gas.

That is precisely the point of the discussion. You are claiming a discernible change in handling with the equivalent of a half tank of gas (50lbs) added/subtracted form the front axle load. And, really, a passenger on board changes the handling of your car for the worse? That's patently absurd. If anything, the weight distribution on the chassis is more symmetrical with a passenger onboard. Was your car corner balanced with you sitting in the driver seat and no passenger? How exactly do you "feel" it affects handling? Kindly educate my "numb" ****.

And anyone with an AWD variant, feel free to chime in with your handling/feel experience towing around that boat anchor front differential.

P.S. No offense intended, just calling you out on what I deem a dubious claim. I am here to learn, however, and am all ears.