Pascoflyer

Hello Rennlist!

Seeing a lot of stuff about failures, and to be honest, its unclear how much of an issue it actually is. (For a track-focused 997) But I am waiting on my PDK to arrive and I specifically picked it because I wanted to try that transmission out. Now I’m seeing a fair bit of frightening stories.

So question: if it fails, I see people spend anywhere from 8-25k USD to have them fixed/replaced depending on the issue. I guess they are more fixable now than they used to be?

But that got me thinking, is it feasible to just switch to manual instead if the transmission kicks the bucket? Has anyone done this before? It doesn’t seem common.

Thanks!

-The New Guy

Wayne Smith

Just a different viewpoint based upon recent posts ...

If you drive a manual transmission long enough you will definitely need a clutch job.

If you drive a PDK a lot you will have fluid changes (with a very low likelihood of needing anything more).

Clutch job ... $5K (a recent post had that number higher).

PDK fluid change every 60K miles ... $500.

So if you can make a clutch last 120K miles you will pay $5K with an MT, or $1K for a PDK for the same miles driven.

For the astute here you will note that the 120K PDK change requires gear oil as well at an extra $200 but I've also ignored the cost of oil changes in the MT which Bruce in Atlanta recently recommended should be done twice as often as the PDK fluid. The MT oil changes more than offset the ignored PDK cost.

And as for the elephant in the room ... What if you do suffer a rare PDK failure? These days there are options (current failures have been sensor only). In the highly unlikely chance that you have a sensor fail current cost for repair is $6 to $8K but there is a good chance this will come down as more shops learn to make repairs. For risk assessment let's say PDK failures occur at 1% (most would agree this is much higher than reality). So the higher repair of $8K drops to a group average cost of $80. Yeah, flame away on that analysis. Anyway ...

So, IMHO, more and more the PDK may be more attractive for those concerned about future costs.

997ajk

Failures of PDK (not just catastrophic) would be around 5%, again year and region dependent..... Check out PV997 (pinned thread)

Most parts and repairs will be under $2.5k - this means TCU/ valve body/solenoids / temp sensor, etc
Repairs of $5-7k these days are for a distance sensor and actual clutch unit
Replacement will be $7-20k for complete reman units

To replace it with a manual tranny - tranny ($2.5-6k) + clutch/flywheel ($1.5-3k) + axles ($500-$1k) + pedal set + linkage + console ($250-1.5k) + ECU + reprogramming + cluster ($2-3.5k) + $3-5k for labour = at the lowest end it's going to cost $8k but most likely be closer to $12k.

Personally I would drive the car , do my maintenance and not worry about, if you want - each month save few $$ for your tranny failure....

dougdtx

As others have already said in their own way, it would not make sense to even attempt this switch before or after a PDK failure. Just buy a car that is already set up with a manual.

I would not stress about a potential failure... Drive and enjoy. Just like the 986/996 stories about IMS failures, The PDK failures are few and far between. And often can be repaired instead of full replacement. It's worth noting that some manuals have also had expensive repairs or replacements as well... Just about as expensive as the PDK.

I would not purchase a manual or PDK or make a swap based on fear alone.... Drive/own the transmission you prefer and will enjoy.

Wayne Smith

This!!!

RABjr

Smart comment. And for me the PDK is delightful!

sandwedge

A lot of good points. PDK repairs have come a long way. As most regulars here know I've been extremely unlucky with two failures on two cars. Both sensor related and expensive but covered by warranty. The sensors have been improved and there are also shops now that can and will open the PDK for relatively simple replacements of electronic parts which as far as I've heard and read have accounted for just about 100% of the failures. Never read or heard of a mechanical PDK failure. Just about bullet proof mechanically.

I did read somewhere that a big step towards reasonable repairs of electronically related items is that they are now produced by others than Porsche in Germany who refused and still do last I heard to sell any internal PDK parts except to Porsche dealerships. That seems to be coming to an end with replacement parts being produced by independents producing and improving these parts and shops learning how to replace them.

So it seems like it's heading towards relatively inexpensive repairs instead of full PDK $20,000 replacement due to what may be due to the failure of a $500 or a $1,000 electronic component. Labor will probably the most expensive portion but as you said, compared to a clutch replacement, how much of a difference?

ThomasCarreraGTS

I agree with all the posts above. Also, I always had manuals, and wanted a manual for my GTS too, but the rarity of the car meant I couldn't find what I wanted, so I went with my car and PDK. Once I got over the "disappointment", and drove the car on the street and track, I realized PDK is actually an awesome transmission. Yes, it is more fun rowing your own around town, but in every other situation I've encountered - track use, traffic, hustling through the twisties, the PDK is much faster, and not having to engage the clutch and change gears allows you to out perform the manual drivers on track and fun roads! As a bonus, it just sounds better under hard acceleration! The echo off the track walls at COTA when your accelerating out of the pits is intoxicating!

In response to question from @Pascoflyer , yes it can be done. There are quite a few extra items that also need to be replaced, like the gear selector on the dash and the steering wheel, but it can be done. There is an article online that I read - I think maybe the guy was in Hawaii or some other island nation, and he documented the entire process. I had originally intended to do the same, but now I prefer having PDK in my GTS, and leave the manual for my 1985.5 944 and my sons Focus RS.

Kuhl997.2!

Okay have to ask why would a car sound any different having a PDK vs a Manual transmission other than when it blips between gears with the PDK ?

ThomasCarreraGTS

On hard acceleration, it sounds similar to a Formula 1 car. There is no lifting of the throttle and accompanying loss of thrust or sound - just constant building. It's a rush, and it sounds awesome, especially under bridges or anywhere that has walls (or grandstands!) to echo or increase the noise. I'm sure there are plenty of videos on YouTube!

jbkusa

this!!!

kellen

As others have stated it would be cost prohibitive. Further though I think the resale would go down as well.

I say drive it and put a little aside every month or sell it and buy a manual.

alfetta

On value dimunition there are plenty of conversions from the SMG to manual on BMW E46 M3s. The generally agreed upon outcome is the resale value is negatively impacted. That appears to be the case if your look at BAT sales. Plus that conversion is cheaper because you keep the same transmission and only change out the bell housing components. I agree with @kellen.

Pascoflyer

Update, received the car two weeks ago, and got PDK error with codes P1990 and P1991. Luckily its barely within initial purchase warranty but it seems my concerns are quickly becoming reality and rapidly pushing me away from confidence in the platform.

groovzilla

PDK issues that I have read about here on RL are running into the $8000-$12,000 range for repair. Comparing PDK issues/repairs with cost of replacing clutch is absurd.
Clutch job including replacing Dual Mass Flywheel and Rear Main Seal should cost more than $3000- 3500. If it does you are being ripped off royally.
Last I checked 2 months ago, Clutch Parts are $2000-$2500 max and labor $1000-$1200 max.

Back on topic---> Good question and wondering what it would take to replace the 997 PDK with Manual Transmission. Also wondering if it could be done on 991 cars?