I bought this 997S for my wife as a daily driver. It's been 6+ years and 75K miles. It is now at 120K miles and I took the engine out to do a very large maintenance project to include $4,000 of parts. I took the opportunity to do a borescope of the cylinders. 1-3 were all good, except that they do have some oil pooling at the bottom which translates to smoke at start up. Then I got to the other bank and ... 4 and 6 are scored.

Here is my plan: I am driving it for another few years or until it does not pass smog anymore. Then I will disassemble the engine to the block. Send it out to LNE for repair and the put it all back for another 100,000 miles. Do you think it will last 2 years?


Cyl 1, good except for oil pooling

Good.

Oil pooling past the rings

Oh well, here is some scoring

Cyl 5 is good

Cyl 6 is scored about the same as 4.

 

I refuse to scope my cylinders...ignorance is bliss but...I have a feeling I might have the dreaded issue based on an oil analysis. I have no black soot on any tail pipe that is any worse than the other 3. I have no smoke on startup but I have metals in the analysis and they aren't small amounts either. Will retest 2000 miles from the last oil change, about 600 more miles. I'm adding oil sometimes but so far less than a quart in 1300 miles, which I've heard isn't that bad. Of course some people burn no oil so...there's that. If I ever have to go the rebuild route, LN is probably my go-to since they're highly recommended and somewhat local as I'm in the Chicagoland area and they are in Illinois.

 

Brother, I hear you. I bought my car without a bore scope inspection. I know, @groovzilla , I know. I've got a few pretty good UOA in the nearly 20K miles I've put on the car, but a tendency to burn oil and sooty left tailpipe have me nervous. My last 4,900 mile run between changes required 4.5 L of oil along the way. It's super frustrating, but I've already long decided that I will keep this car. It is special to me, and if I have to tear her apart, then she will be better for it. The fund for a rebuild is in place and I'm treating her as kindly as possible to avoid or delay what I believe to be inevitable. It is strange, no doubt, that I don't want to know for sure. I really don't have much to say about that...

 

Yep, same boat I bought mine without a PPI, because I'm a genius and so far, it runs great! I have done a ton of work to this car, mostly cosmetic - all new leather console and side panels, new head unit with backup cam, changed out some scratched up parts, painted the stereo stack bezels black, all new paint on the hood, fenders and bumper with PPF, turbo rims (lobsters are in the attic), new engine mounts, water pump, LTT, changed tranny fluid to PTX, did the tranny mount insert from function first, numeric short shifter with BFI heavy shift ****, frunk lid liner and more. Also switched to Drive DT40 oil and the spin on oil adapter for a K&N filter as I was told that would help stave off additional bore scoring... we will see after the next oil analysis if that did anything. My numbers were triple the norm ...

 

It's gonna have to last a year or two more. I don't have time to deal with it this year. In the mean time, new battery, starter, alternator, water pump, thermostat, AOS, plugs, coils, shock mounts, belt, idle pulleys (3), tires, brakes, oil, filters, a new coolant tank, and new gear oil just went in. So let's say I make it to 140,000 miles before a rebuild.. that's not so bad. Nobody ever said cars were to last forever.

 

Agreed. I forgot I also did new suspension and associated bits, plugs and coils recently as one was cracked almost in half. This car needs to run for a couple more years for me to start thinking about an engine fund...picked up an S5 last week for my winter car, only b/c it was a decent deal. And I won't even drive it much b/c I'd much rather be in the 911 when the weather is good!

 

Sorry to hear the news. It was painful when I had received the news about the 2 997S cars I wanted to buy early last year and the Bore Scope results were awful. I feel like I hit the jackpot on my current higher mileage 997C4.
If I were you, I would just look around for a while and buy a nice warm climate (Calif/Tx/AZ) used 997 engine that has been Bore Scope Inspected - I'm sure you can source one for $15-$16K.
Drive your current engine into the ground. Then do the swap with your nice clean Bore Scoped $15K engine that's sitting in the garage ready to go..
Think about it:
In 2-3 years when you will need to replace your engine, if you go the rebuild route, the parts will have gone up dramatically (like they are doing now) as well as huge labor costs.
I'd bet a rebuild will be close to $35K in 2-3 years.
I would go the used engine route. Just my 2 cents.

I've been thinking about buying a used 997 engine and just hanging onto it in garage. Why the hell not? They could become somewhat valuable as we move forward. Also if I find a 997 basket case it would be nice to have the spare.
*Wish I had bought the 1956 356 Carrera 1500 GS engine in crate I was offered 37 years ago.

 

2009 C2S 180K

Google around. Jake Raby helped someone in the same issue and recommended some special, heavier oil to make it last longer. Or drop him an email and ask his advise. He is so backed up, you may be able to get yourself into the waiting list for two years out. She is gonna blow... it is counting down. I would rather get a repair done before there is collateral damage and then not be repairable.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

 

When the time comes, I will send the block to LN Engineering to fix the block. Then I will assemble the whole engine myself, there is no need to get on Jake's list. My labor is free to me and I can probably get this engine back together for $10-$15K. I have a problem buying used engines. It's the devil I don't know.

I am just thinking through the logistics. In one more year, my daughter will graduate college and I will buy her a new car. Then I will use her current car (Audi A3) as a daily driver for my wife while I work on her 997 for 6 months. Send the block out, do the valve job, repaint the bumpers, repaint the lobster wheels, assemble the engine with new pistons and rings, paint correction when done.

 

Why not buy a used scored engine and do the rebuild in your own time with no pressure - then when the time comes just swap the two :-)

Just some useless internet advice

 

Sorry to hear about your scoring issue. Switch to Driven FR50 5w50 for higher hot film strength to help prevent the additional wear as much as possible

 

​​​Hi @yelcab , I’ve also got verified bore scoring on cyl 3. WRT Raby oil recommendations here are a few things I’ve gleaned from my research and watching FSI videos/attending FSI prospective customer webinars:
- before you have piston “knocking” consider shortening the oil change interval (2k to 2.5k miles) and using an oil that does a good job of cleaning out the small metal particles - Jake recommended to me Liqui Moly 2040 Synthoil Premium SAE 5W-40 Motor Oil.
- I saw an older video where Jake recommends a special Cummins diesel oil if you need to drive the car after you get the piston “knocking” sound. He doesn’t recommend driving it under these conditions but does suggest an oil that can help if you need to drive it.
I am on the 2k mile oil change interval w/ the liqui Moly 2040/2041 (one is the 5 liter package) and I do an UOA after every change and have started cutting my spin on filters open to inspect them. I also have the LN LTT, magnetic oil drain plug and spin on adapter.

driving the beauty until one day my number comes up and I start getting piston knock. That’s when the driving stops and the engine rebuild begins. I have the money set aside to do it when it happens. You can spend it up front w/ a .2 or you can roll the dice and plan for spending it to get a 4.0. But I gotta say, not worth it if you don’t absolutely love these cars.

 

It sucks but it gave at least 120K of service. Given the circs, it seems like you are in an excellent position with this plan, as you can do a lot of the work yourself and have the logistics and wherewithal
to do it. After that your family will be so pleased to have that particular 997 with that original (rebuilt) engine in the family!

And I hope your wife and daughter appreciate the automotive wonders you have been so thoughtful about providing for them!

 

I'd get a second opinion on the borescope. Those scoring lines don't look too deep and if it's not eating a ton of oil you could get a couple more years. I would also consider an additive like Ceratec. Friction reducers can help slow the wear. I also agree on 2k 2.5k oil changes. My car will not use oil until after 2k when it begins to shear down.
My 2c.

 

2008 C2S Cab, currently 81,500 miles, daily driver.

Mine started showing symptoms around 27,000 miles. I drove it to 47,000 miles before getting the engine rebuilt (LNE all the way, including IMS Solution, new clutch and AOS, 4.0 liter bore plus new pistons, pinned IMS shaft sprocket, etc.).

I had tracked the oil condition via routine changes and UOA every 3,000 to 4,000 miles. Except for carrying extra oil around with me all the time and filthy LH tailpipes, you would not have known there was a problem by the way the car drove. I did not change to a heavier oil, but I would have given today's knowledge. However, adding oil with nearly every tank of gas was truly depressing.

My purpose in driving and delaying the repair was primarily financial -- it gave me a couple of years (at 10,000 per year) to save up. I am pretty sure I could have driven it a little longer, but the oil consumption was going up with increasing speed (almost describing a parabola) and was about 300-400 miles/liter when I threw in the towel and had it rebuilt. The UOAs were showing more metal and more fuel dilution and I did not want to risk totally trashing all the good parts of the engine.

Now, 35,000 miles into my rebuilt engine, it's really nice to not worry about my car since all of the known engineering weaknesses got addressed during the rebuild. My plan has always been to amortize the cost over many, many years by driving it forever. I originally thought the rebuild would give me another 100,000 miles (like you), but the way it feels, I would not be surprised if the engine lasts much longer, and I ultimately end up spending more money on the chassis than the engine as it ages and wears.

I would advise not being afraid to drive it now, but monitor all the usual vitals (oil consumption and UOAs) and pull the rebuild trigger the second you can afford it.

With the fear and anxiety of an actual case of bore scoring completely behind me, it is a wonderful car to drive, and I look forward to driving it every single day!