Another AWD delete thread
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,575
Likes: 1,115
From: Florida
Not necessarily. Depends on the use case for the car and the driver.
The rwd cars have much better steering feel, feel lighter and more alive, don't understeer through the turns as much, and it removes things that need to be serviced from the equation.
Unless driving in heavy rain frequently or snow, with the rear weight bias due to the engine over the driving wheels, the 997 really doesn't need the AWD and is more fun without it. Just my opinion of course.
The rwd cars have much better steering feel, feel lighter and more alive, don't understeer through the turns as much, and it removes things that need to be serviced from the equation.
Unless driving in heavy rain frequently or snow, with the rear weight bias due to the engine over the driving wheels, the 997 really doesn't need the AWD and is more fun without it. Just my opinion of course.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,785
Likes: 7,390
From: Seattle, Washington
In summary before thread got going round and round like many others:
OP's concern was expense of maintaining AWD ---->There really isn't any additional expense if car has good maintenance history and most likely more expensive removing it.
If u want RWD buy one.
I don't know many buyers looking for 997 with removed front differential so resale is also an additional expense if removed.
OP's concern was expense of maintaining AWD ---->There really isn't any additional expense if car has good maintenance history and most likely more expensive removing it.
If u want RWD buy one.
I don't know many buyers looking for 997 with removed front differential so resale is also an additional expense if removed.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 284
Likes: 128
From: norcal
In summary before thread got going round and round like many others:
OP's concern was expense of maintaining AWD ---->There really isn't any additional expense if car has good maintenance history and most likely more expensive removing it.
If u want RWD buy one.
I don't know many buyers looking for 997 with removed front differential so resale is also an additional expense if removed.
OP's concern was expense of maintaining AWD ---->There really isn't any additional expense if car has good maintenance history and most likely more expensive removing it.
If u want RWD buy one.
I don't know many buyers looking for 997 with removed front differential so resale is also an additional expense if removed.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,785
Likes: 7,390
From: Seattle, Washington
Maybe I missed it but I don't see where OP mentions any concern for the expense of maintaining AWD. The goal to me seems to be an affordable way to get a RWD widebody 997; something that you would need to go to a 7.1 GT3rs or a 7.2 GTS at minimum to achieve out of the box.
OP was concerned with upkeep/maintenance/expense issues of AWD from what I remember viewing on original Post and considering removing the AWD system. And those concerns were addressed by several reply posts.
Perhaps I have dementia??
Last edited by groovzilla; Jan 10, 2022 at 11:54 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 284
Likes: 128
From: norcal
I see there were edits to the original post.
OP was concerned with upkeep/maintenance/expense issues of AWD from what I remember viewing on original Post and considering removing the AWD system. And those concerns were addressed by several reply posts.
Perhaps I have dementia??
OP was concerned with upkeep/maintenance/expense issues of AWD from what I remember viewing on original Post and considering removing the AWD system. And those concerns were addressed by several reply posts.
Perhaps I have dementia??
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 216
Likes: 131
From: Portland, Oregon
Hey skaper, tried to look you up on IG to see how far along you are on the project, but no luck. I was just curious if you investigated the price delta on just selling your C4 and buying a .1 C2 over modification? Perhaps you just want a project?
I get wanting to go RWD over AWD tho. During my 8 mo. search for my car, a buddy bought a perfect 997.2 C4S and flipped me the keys. It was beautiful, but driving dynamics felt a bit sluggish compared to RWD. I could really feel the weight in the front end. But of course, no shame in loving a C4. Solid cars too.
I get wanting to go RWD over AWD tho. During my 8 mo. search for my car, a buddy bought a perfect 997.2 C4S and flipped me the keys. It was beautiful, but driving dynamics felt a bit sluggish compared to RWD. I could really feel the weight in the front end. But of course, no shame in loving a C4. Solid cars too.
Hey! This link should work for you!
https://www.instagram.com/997.one/
I just recently completed removal of the FWD drive components on my 997 C4. It’s easy to do and fully reversible. Remove front drive shaft, front differential and axles. Replace axles with Gt3 stub axles which fit into the C4/C4S wheel carrier. Some people also disassemble the front CV joint to reuse the stubs, but they are hard to reassemble if you want to reverse the mod. This is a fully mechanical system (on .1 cars) so does not affect PSM or ABS.
why? Well, C2/C2S widebodies are kinda unique, but it’s really about the driving experience. The steering feel is significantly better without the front drivetrain to mute and numb response and feedback. Steering is now lighter and more communicative. I was disappointed with the steering feel on my C4 but now it’s what I expected a 997 to be. For a fair weather street driven car, AWD is unnecessary, creates understeer, and doesn’t add much traction advantage with all the weight over the rear wheels. The only downside for cars without an LSD is that high speed corners with wheel lift may cause the outer wheel to spin. This is more of an issue for cars that are tracked. An LSD can be added.
as far as value, who cares? This can be fully reversed in about 3 hours with no long term impact to value. The car is much much more enjoyable this way!
just my 2 cents!
why? Well, C2/C2S widebodies are kinda unique, but it’s really about the driving experience. The steering feel is significantly better without the front drivetrain to mute and numb response and feedback. Steering is now lighter and more communicative. I was disappointed with the steering feel on my C4 but now it’s what I expected a 997 to be. For a fair weather street driven car, AWD is unnecessary, creates understeer, and doesn’t add much traction advantage with all the weight over the rear wheels. The only downside for cars without an LSD is that high speed corners with wheel lift may cause the outer wheel to spin. This is more of an issue for cars that are tracked. An LSD can be added.
as far as value, who cares? This can be fully reversed in about 3 hours with no long term impact to value. The car is much much more enjoyable this way!
just my 2 cents!
And agree! Drive it and enjoy it! Also can be easily reversed if needed.
I see there were edits to the original post.
OP was concerned with upkeep/maintenance/expense issues of AWD from what I remember viewing on original Post and considering removing the AWD system. And those concerns were addressed by several reply posts.
Perhaps I have dementia??
OP was concerned with upkeep/maintenance/expense issues of AWD from what I remember viewing on original Post and considering removing the AWD system. And those concerns were addressed by several reply posts.
Perhaps I have dementia??
I know many purchase pcar's and have concern for resale but that's no way to live in my opinion. Enjoy em how you like em!
Last edited by 997.one; Jan 11, 2022 at 01:41 AM. Reason: typos
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 204
Likes: 140
From: Louisville KY
I have always been attracted to the slightly larger hips of the 4S. And honestly, something about doing the conversion sounds a bit taboo to many, and that makes it all more appealing.
Hey! This link should work for you!
https://www.instagram.com/997.one/
I know many purchase pcar's and have concern for resale but that's no way to live in my opinion. Enjoy em how you like em!
Hey! This link should work for you!
https://www.instagram.com/997.one/
I know many purchase pcar's and have concern for resale but that's no way to live in my opinion. Enjoy em how you like em!
And +1 on the self-induced "fear of resale." Anything that keeps you off the road when you own a 911 is poison, imo
Last edited by Butzi 997; Jan 11, 2022 at 08:39 AM.
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Advanced
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 75
Likes: 38
My Indy suggested Wavetrac or Quaife for an LSD. It’s been too cold/rainy/snowy here in western WA to drive the car hard but I haven’t yet felt an LSD would make a dramatic difference. Glad to see so much appreciation for this conversion! A beautiful (I think Cobalt) blue 4S RWD conversion sold on BAT about 2-3 months ago and the pearl clutching in the comments was hilarious. Whether modded and driven hard or bone stock and diaper wiped, everyone enjoys this hobby in their own way. That’s what makes it fun!
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,785
Likes: 7,390
From: Seattle, Washington
I have always been attracted to the slightly larger hips of the 4S. And honestly, something about doing the conversion sounds a bit taboo to many, and that makes it all more appealing.
Hey! This link should work for you!
https://www.instagram.com/997.one/
Yes! Glad to hear you're enjoying the car after the conversion! The LSD is something that could be considered. Have you thought of options for this?
And agree! Drive it and enjoy it! Also can be easily reversed if needed.
Lol, sorry man, you might need to get checked out. I made an edit to the main post to add the note in bold stating the car is a .1 and not a .2.
I know many purchase pcar's and have concern for resale but that's no way to live in my opinion. Enjoy em how you like em!
Hey! This link should work for you!
https://www.instagram.com/997.one/
Yes! Glad to hear you're enjoying the car after the conversion! The LSD is something that could be considered. Have you thought of options for this?
And agree! Drive it and enjoy it! Also can be easily reversed if needed.
Lol, sorry man, you might need to get checked out. I made an edit to the main post to add the note in bold stating the car is a .1 and not a .2.
I know many purchase pcar's and have concern for resale but that's no way to live in my opinion. Enjoy em how you like em!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 216
Likes: 131
From: Portland, Oregon
My Indy suggested Wavetrac or Quaife for an LSD. It’s been too cold/rainy/snowy here in western WA to drive the car hard but I haven’t yet felt an LSD would make a dramatic difference. Glad to see so much appreciation for this conversion! A beautiful (I think Cobalt) blue 4S RWD conversion sold on BAT about 2-3 months ago and the pearl clutching in the comments was hilarious. Whether modded and driven hard or bone stock and diaper wiped, everyone enjoys this hobby in their own way. That’s what makes it fun!
LOL "pearl clutching"!
Looks like the LSD is the rabbit hole to pursue! Might be a good time to do a flywheel as well? I know the flywheel seems to be a touchy subject for some as well.
I went and checked out that Cobalt on BAT. I did recall that call but didn't read the description. I am shocked it still went for that price with all those miles and modifications. The PCCB and X51 were a plus for someone I am sure.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 58
Likes: 19
From: Chicago
I've heard you can disable the AWD system on a 997.2 (C4/C4S) by applying the E-brake "1 Click" on a PDK only. I have yet to try this...Can anyone confirm?
Last edited by velvetmachine; Jan 11, 2022 at 01:48 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 216
Likes: 131
From: Portland, Oregon
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,210
Likes: 1,962
See posts 4, 5, and 6 for instance ...
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ve-models.html
I've posted videos and other confirmations on this Forum but my phone search to find those threads isn't all that great.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ve-models.html
I've posted videos and other confirmations on this Forum but my phone search to find those threads isn't all that great.
Last edited by Wayne Smith; Jan 11, 2022 at 02:30 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 104
From: Edmonton, Canada
Another Rennlist member, @halo777 did the AWD delete on his 997.1:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post14202440
I believe the kit he used was this Phenix Engineering one:
https://rennkit.com/product-info/phenix-engineering/
Now I can't remember the thread, but I did recall reading that if you want, you could install the front struts set up from a C2 for 'proper' front suspension geometry (because the AWD front struts are castor'd a bit to allow the axles to pass to the upgright).
Hard to lose that much weight off the car without really drastic measures elsewhere. The diff and other gubbins must be close to 150-200lbs?
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post14202440
I believe the kit he used was this Phenix Engineering one:
https://rennkit.com/product-info/phenix-engineering/
Now I can't remember the thread, but I did recall reading that if you want, you could install the front struts set up from a C2 for 'proper' front suspension geometry (because the AWD front struts are castor'd a bit to allow the axles to pass to the upgright).
Hard to lose that much weight off the car without really drastic measures elsewhere. The diff and other gubbins must be close to 150-200lbs?
