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Hello - new here - I am comtemplating a 2007 997.1 C2S Cab [69k miles] which I had a PPI on - the photos are cylinders 4, 5 and 6 on bank 2. The technician said this was "normal", no oil in bores and no soot/oil on plugs and that "all of these vehicles will be the exactly the same". Having looked at bore scoring articles here and elsewhere, the examples I have seen are way worse than these light abrasions but saying that, the photos are not brilliant quality.
The car has been maintained by a main dealers since new - can't speak for any intermediate oil changes as there's no supplementary paperwork.
I note from research that there are a range of views when issues arise from super cautious "walk away, there are plenty to choose from" all the way through to "don't worry, the car is XX years old what do you expect?...it's been driven".
Before you give up on the car, if you are serious about the car, pay for an inspection by a specialist as I've seen many a car passed over for misdiagnosed bore pictures that were absolutely normal.
Before you give up on the car, if you are serious about the car, pay for an inspection by a specialist as I've seen many a car passed over for misdiagnosed bore pictures that were absolutely normal.
That first thread southbay posted were the pics of my cylinder bore scope (cylinder #6) when I had a PPI on my car almost 2 years ago. I freaked out when I first saw the pics, but was told by the shop doing the PPI (a very reputable shop in Dallas) and several others that it wasn't something to be concerned about. You can read through the thread, but the short story is I bought the car and couldn't be happier. I even had a PPI (Post Purchase Inspection) by my Indy here in Denver and had them have a look when they were changing the spark plugs and they weren't concerned either.
I've had my car for almost 2 years now, have put 10k miles on it, and received 3 great used oil analysis'. I even video'd my exhaust pipes during a cold startup a few weeks ago after it had sat for a while and there was zero smoke, even though a little puff isn't anything to be concerned about with these cars.
Personally, those pics you posted don't concern me. Some of the experts here state that the only way to truly know if the car has a scored bore when doing a PPI is to drop the sump and scope the cylinders from the bottom of the cylinder, as that is where scoring begins. What you see in those pictures is "streaking" or "scuffing". Actually I think those pics look better than the pics of my #6 cylinder. If it is not exhibiting any other symptoms (one tailpipe or both extremely sooty, knocking noises, fowled plugs, etc.) of bore scoring, it's most likely fine.
I wonder how many people have performed a bore scope during a PPI, came here for advice, were told to run away, then passed on an otherwise great car, only for someone else who has never heard of Rennlist to drive away happy. I'd hate to give you bad advice, I'm just trying to provide a personal experience.
With all of that said, there is always a risk that bore scoring could bite you. If you change the oil frequently with a high quality synthetic, install a low-temp T-stat, and let the car warm up properly before spirited driving, you should be in good shape.
From the little bit of the piston I think I can see in the photos, it looks like these photos were taken from the top through the spark plug hole. If you're serious about the car and the price is right and it has the options and colors you like, pay the $300-$400 extra to have them pull the sump and scope those cylinders from the bottom side with the pistons all the way up instead of all the way down. Scoring starts at the bottom when the piston changes direction, rocks a little bit on the wrist pin and the piston skirt then contacts the cylinder wall. I have seen motors that had zero vertical marks in the tops of the cylinders but had scoring that had already started in the bottom of the bores. The fact that this one already has from faint lines above the piston means you need to take the next step and look from the bottom before buying the car.
That first thread southbay posted were the pics of my cylinder bore scope (cylinder #6) when I had a PPI on my car almost 2 years ago. I freaked out when I first saw the pics, but was told by the shop doing the PPI (a very reputable shop in Dallas) and several others that it wasn't something to be concerned about. You can read through the thread, but the short story is I bought the car and couldn't be happier. I even had a PPI (Post Purchase Inspection) by my Indy here in Denver and had them have a look when they were changing the spark plugs and they weren't concerned either.
I've had my car for almost 2 years now, have put 10k miles on it, and received 3 great used oil analysis'. I even video'd my exhaust pipes during a cold startup a few weeks ago after it had sat for a while and there was zero smoke, even though a little puff isn't anything to be concerned about with these cars.
Personally, those pics you posted don't concern me. Some of the experts here state that the only way to truly know if the car has a scored bore when doing a PPI is to drop the sump and scope the cylinders from the bottom of the cylinder, as that is where scoring begins. What you see in those pictures is "streaking" or "scuffing". Actually I think those pics look better than the pics of my #6 cylinder. If it is not exhibiting any other symptoms (one tailpipe or both extremely sooty, knocking noises, fowled plugs, etc.) of bore scoring, it's most likely fine.
I wonder how many people have performed a bore scope during a PPI, came here for advice, were told to run away, then passed on an otherwise great car, only for someone else who has never heard of Rennlist to drive away happy. I'd hate to give you bad advice, I'm just trying to provide a personal experience.
With all of that said, there is always a risk that bore scoring could bite you. If you change the oil frequently with a high quality synthetic, install a low-temp T-stat, and let the car warm up properly before spirited driving, you should be in good shape.
Good luck and please keep us posted!
Thank you G.I.G. I am leaning towards your common sense approach - "If you change the oil frequently with a high quality synthetic, install a low-temp T-stat, and let the car warm up properly before spirited driving, you should be in good shape" albeit whatever abrasion there is will not cure itself. No disrespect at all to previous owner(s) but I would intend to be more on the maintenance and disciplined approach.
I am wondering whether Mobil 1 FS X1 5W-50 would be a better bet in the future rather than Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 given that Mobil suggests 5W-50 is better for cars over 100k KM/62K miles? The manual states - Engine Oil Recommendation
Recommended oil viscosity ranges dependent on ambient temperatures
Ambient temperature seasonal
SAE Viscosity Range engine oils
generally above –13°F/–25°C
SAE 0W-40, 5W-40, 5W-50 approved by Porsche
generally below –13°F/–25°C
SAE 0W-40 approved by Porsche
I'm generally above -25 degrees and the car is over 62K miles so the thicker 5W-40 or 5W-50 seems appropriate for the higher mileage variant for the added cleaning/protection properties?
Thank you again...
Last edited by Rustypiston; 01-11-2021 at 09:43 AM.
From the little bit of the piston I think I can see in the photos, it looks like these photos were taken from the top through the spark plug hole. If you're serious about the car and the price is right and it has the options and colors you like, pay the $300-$400 extra to have them pull the sump and scope those cylinders from the bottom side with the pistons all the way up instead of all the way down. Scoring starts at the bottom when the piston changes direction, rocks a little bit on the wrist pin and the piston skirt then contacts the cylinder wall. I have seen motors that had zero vertical marks in the tops of the cylinders but had scoring that had already started in the bottom of the bores. The fact that this one already has from faint lines above the piston means you need to take the next step and look from the bottom before buying the car.
Thank you Petza914 - good point. So many aspects to consider...
I run Mobil 1 5W-50 all year long and I live in Northern NJ. You should be fine using it as long as you’re within the temp specs. It’s Porsche A40 approved. I have 34k miles on my 07S.
I would start with a good 5-40 oil (L-Moly or DT-40 are popular) and monitor the oil consumption. Unless the car is tracked the switch to 5-50 has no positive operating
effect as your oil temperature will probably never exceed 225. And 70K isn't considered an old engine in Porsche's book
You could always try and use this as a negotiation tool to lower the price to a point where rebuilding the engine is a comfortable solution.
What would you pay for a car with a brand new rebuilt engine, meet somewhere in the middle.
01-07-2021, 07:55 AM
PPI Bore Scope - is this "light scoring" normal?
