G.I.G.

Hello, I was hoping to get some quick advice/guidance from the experts....

I have a car in getting a PPI currently at Mayo Performance in Dallas. It's a Vegas car that ended up in TX, '07 Carerra S (3.8L) with 50k miles on the clock.

I had them pull the #6 spark plug, and below are the pics of the cylinder wall. What I'm trying to determine is if this is A) normal wear for an engine with 50k miles on it or B) the beginning of bore scoring. The mechanic said it could be from carbon deposits breaking loose and be considered normal for a car of this age, but he couldn't conclusively tell me it isn't the beginning of bore scoring. I don't want to overreact to something that might be "normal", but I don't want to buy a car that is going to need an engine rebuild anytime soon.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Charles Navarro

What cylinder number was that on? Some of that looks like streaking, however you might want to have them test the engine oil (we use SPEEDiagnostix) and while they have the oil drained, they can pull the pan and scope bores 4, 5, and 6 with the piston at TDC. Scoring starts at the bottom of the cylinder.

G.I.G.

Thanks, Charles. I appreciate you chiming in.

This was cylinder #6. I talked to Jud at Flat 6 Innovations after sending him the pictures, and he said he was going to talk to Chris at Mayo Innovations and have him give me a call. It sounds like Chris has been through the Flat 6 Innovations training on this, but another one of their mech's is the one that took the pictures and gave me a call.

I'm going to have them finish the PPI, which will involve pulling the filter to look for debris. I'm not sure if they can test the engine oil onsite, but I'll ask.

Charles Navarro

You are in good hands. Chris @ Mayo is a great mechanic and very well versed in the M96 engine. I'd go with whatever recommendations he has and as you've already contacted Flat 6, I think you're at the right place and speaking to the right people.

G.I.G.

Thanks again, Charles. That is the word on the street regarding Mayo. I just got off the phone with Chris. He said that the reason why Bryan didn't conclusively tell me nothing was wrong, was that they don't like to give speak in absolutes due to people coming back later angry that something happened to their car when they were told it was fine. I guess that's the world we live in today. Chris said he didn't see anything out of the normal and that if it were him, it wouldn't stop him from buying the car. That is exactly what I needed to hear.

Flat_Six_

That's awesome news. You got a solid PPI by a qualified expert and peace of mind that will help you sleep at night.

Dennis R. Cliff

Sorry, but whether scoring is from carbon particles, silicon particles, aluminum sliding on aluminum effects, or grit from a failed air filter it is still scoring. Your photos show what seems to be very mild scoring compared to worse case scoring but still I would think that normal wear would be uniform and not result in grooves in the cylinder bore. It would be valuable to see what is happening in the other five bores. I personally would have to pass on a Porsche with what these photos show. Have you been following the threads with discussions by Jake and Baz? I am attaching a photo that I recently took of my 09 C2S cylinder bore. This car also has 54K miles on it but it is a different engine altogether. Best of luck.

G.I.G.

Thanks. I was debating doing it at all. It was only another $90 in labor to pull the plug and do the scope. They did that and the DME first, so I could make the call if I wanted to proceed through the whole PPI. There was no specific indication that would warrant a bore scope. This is from a car that lived its whole life in Vegas. But since Mayo had it, I figured why not do it. They said the plug looked normal (no fowling), so that is another positive sign.

Mayo Performance has been top notch during this whole process. Great communication and they were able to get me in for a PPI in under 24 hours (even though they are booked up for standard appointments for weeks). I highly recommend them.

G.I.G.

Thanks, Dennis. Yes, I've been following along with the discussions with Baz and Jake. I called Flat 6 and talked to Jud, who says he knows Chris at Mayo personally. They both spoke, then Chris called me back to discuss. I also called Jud back, and he said he talked to Jake (Jake is at an event at Amelia Island currently) regarding the pictures. Between the 3 of them, they all concluded the same thing: the pics show "streaking", not scoring. That's not to say that scoring couldn't still happen to this engine, but no one is seeing anything concerning at this point.

No one is giving me a guarantee that bore scoring won't happen, nor would I expect them to. Everything is a calculated risk. Based on the information I've gathered and the experts I've spoken to, I'll probably move forward with this car unless something else concerning comes up.

Porschetech3