IrishLegend

I'm looking at purchasing a 2005 997 w/100k miles...how much should I be worried about the IMS? Engine # M97/0168510985.
Thanks.

groovzilla

1. Whats the cars IMS history? Is Engine early enough to have the smaller more problematic Bearing? (Even though failure % are extremely small)
2. Has bearing been changed with LN Bearing?
3. Any service records, any LN Bearing decals in owners manual/service records or stuck to door drivers jam?

At 100K miles I'd have to bet the bearing has either been changed(if engine is early enough to have the smaller Bearing which can be changed easily when replacing clutch) or it is robust enough if it is the original Bearing.
My 2 cent$

IrishLegend

Thanks. I'll have it checked out I guess when I need a new clutch.

groovzilla

Did you buy the car? If not you can easily research the engine serial# to determine which IMS Bearing
Did you get service records?
Look for any signs of oil seepage on bell housing. That could also possibly be Rear Main Seal seepage.

BTW - My 2007 997S is from Austin! Can't get rid of that damn accent

IrishLegend

I'm buying the car this week.

Doug H

No, the early bearing has a horrendous failure rate. I would not have one without an upgraded bearing.

groovzilla

Horrendous failure rate when car has 100K miles??? I don't think so.

groovzilla

Feel free to ask away on questions or concerns. Is it an S model? Color/etc. Any options.
4 years ago I bought 2005 997S from RL Member in Houston. Great guy nice car and was Atlas Grey w/black leather.
Had 75K miles and was the later model engine so bearing couldn;t be replaced without major surgery.
Was a great car

California is my usual go-to for Porsches but I've found some very nice examples in Texas. Great people too.
Love the 85 MPH speed limit on Route 10 driving to LA from TX on way home to Seattle.
Everyone doing 100mph +
Forgot to slow down thru Pheonix at 3am - Even motorcycle cop in Pheonix was cool. Pulled up next to me and just motioned his hand for me to slow down.
Shot past me probably doing 120mph leaving me in dust.

IrishLegend

Thanks for the reply.

Sporty

what is the build date of the car ??? Look on the door if Feb/March most likely bigger better IMS bearing

Doug H

Yep, that car is on borrowed time if the earlier bearing. The failure rate for the early bearing has got to be over 25%. Absolute pitiful advice without a strong recommendation to upgrade the bearing when a cheap, viable solution exists and to scope for bore scoring.

Although the above IMS poll are diluted by almost 1/2 because some moron later combined all 997.2s with no IMS bearing with 997.1s into the numbers, the reported failure rate 3 years ago for all 2005s (including both decent and Shyte IMS bearings) was 19%.

He is the breakdown of failures by by year as of November 2017.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post14608508

That poll started in 2011 so doubtfully includes or accounts for all of the early failures or the fact that a large amount of the early bearings had been replaced with upgraded bearings before failure occurred.

I think 25% to 30% failure rate for the early bearing is a reasonable number and then add the potential for bore scoring in the M96/97 into the mix and no thank you without an upgraded bearing and a bore scope.

This poor guy comes on here asking for advise to avoid a really expensive decision and perhaps did not even realize the potential for bore scoring so why not recommend that he get a bore scope?

groovy dude

Early '05 - have the clutch replaced with a new LN bearing. Late '05 - low failure rate but unserviceable. You can tell, albeit not with absolute certainty, by the engine number if it's early or late (search for this and you'll find the cuttoff). Clutch and bearing cost is about $2000 - $3000 depending on particulars. FYI, my '05 is early, and I had the bearing replaced (at 41K with the clutch when I bought the car). The old bearing was in perfect condition, but now I have peace of mind. The LN bearing is bulletproof for at least as long as the clutch, and I'll just replace it again with the next clutch (assuming I'm still alive, lol).

BY ALL MEANS, HAVE THE ENGINE SCOPED before you buy. Scored cylinders will cost you serious dough. IMO this is more of a concern than the IMS, there are some who think this will effect most 997.1 engines at some point.

sandwedge

Agree completely on the bore scope. As for the IMS, I've been here since 2007 and between the endless discussions about the small IMS and the larger improved version on 2005 cars I have yet to see a 100% reliable way of determining which bearing 2005 cars have based on VIN #, serial number, build date or any other metric. What I've come away with is that the only way to know for sure is with a visual confirmation from underneath the car.

I'll go as far as to say it seems pretty well documented that the very latest 2005 cars have the larger bearing. Some say the transition became fully implemented mid year 2005 but I've also read about some exceptions to that suggesting that some 2005 cars were built with the smaller bearing past mid year. Factual or not, I don't know.