Doug H

7 to 10% failure rate on IMS in 2001 to 2005 is way, way under estimated. I would say well into the 20% or higher range. Our poll is diluted because some moron decided to combine 997.2 that do not have IMS with 997.1s, but there is a spread sheet in there that breaks it down by years.

One also has to consider the high rate of IMS updates or conversions in the early cars so these were just caught or corrected BEFORE catastrophic failure, but does not mean those cars would not have grenaded.

The reason posting misinformation like this could be such a huge deal is because a new, impressionable, non-educated purchaser may forgo a cheap and easy correction thinking the failure rate is so low.

Doug H

The below is a poll break down % CMA in the above IMS poll back on 11-16-17 in post 872. The failure rate for 05s (which also includes late 05s or some better bearings) was 19%.

There have been more failures since 2017. The percentages are also artificially small due to percentage of cars that changed out or updated the IMS before a failure occurred.

If you have have an 01-05, spend the $$$ to do the IMS upgrade and avoid the potential heartache of facing a repair that cost more than the value of your car.


IMS Failure By Year

2005 2006 2007 2008

No 81% 97% 96% 100%

Yes 19% 3% 4% 0%

996 Poll was started in 2013 . . . How many had catastrophic IMS failures between 2001 and 2012 and had long since moved on before the 2013 poll was created and MANY in that poll are reported no failures with the UPDATED bearing.

Ryans Rebel

That is a good wrap up. Thanks!

Khloesdad

Anyone know the weight difference in the standard Carrera/Carrera S and the 4S model? I would love to upgrade at some point to a WB but don't want/need the AWD or extra weight.

Hula

Widebodies are the 4/4 Cab, 4S/4S Cab, Targa 4, Targa 4S, GTS/GTS Cab, 4 GTS/4 GTS Cab, Turbo/Turbo Cab, Turbo S/Turbo S Cab, GT3 RS, GT2, GT2 RS, and Sport Classic

Ironman88

Carrera 1,415 kg (3,120 lb)

Carrera S 1,425 kg (3,142 lb)

Carrera 4S 1,480 kg (3,263 lb)

Khloesdad

Wow, I expected more than 143lbs. I guess AWD is not a dealbreaker for me.
Thanks.

Petza914

Pretty simple question.

If you want PDK and a 997, you're talking '09 or newer and the 997.2. That also addresses the IMS issue, though in mid-2005 Porsche started using a larger single row IMS bearing that has a very low failure rate. Those are 997.1 cars up until 09 though and the 2-pedal transmission in those was a Tiptronic and not what you want in a sports car. 997.1s need to be MT, otherwise look at 997.2s for the PDK.

Widebody vs Narrow body also easy. Every model EXCEPT the C2, C2S, and GT3 are widebody. Those 3 and only those 3 are NB.

TheTorch

People say "added weight of AWD" a lot here. Seems overblown to me.

Much like when I hear "lightweight" 991 Carrera T -- 11 lbs less than base Carrera? That's less than 2 gallons of gas.

wjk_glynn

Adding a few more data points...

Porsche's 'official' weights for 6MT 997.2 models are:
...

• C2 Coupe - 3,120 lbs (DIN) / 3,285 lbs (EC)
• C2 Cabriolet - 3,307 lbs (DIN) / 3,472 lbs (EC)
• C2S Coupe - 3,142 lbs (DIN) / 3,307 lbs (EC)
• C2S Cabriolet - 3,329 lbs (DIN) / 3,495 lbs (EC)
• C4 Coupe - 3,241 lbs (DIN) / 3,406 lbs (EC)
• C4 Cabriolet - 3,428 lbs (DIN) / 3,594 lbs (EC)
• C4S Coupe - 3,263 lbs (DIN) / 3,428 lbs (EC)
• C4S Cabriolet - 3,450 lbs (DIN) / 3,616 lbs (EC)
• Targa 4 - 3,373 lbs (DIN) / 3,539 lbs (EC)
• Targa 4S - 3,395 lbs (DIN) / 3,561 lbs (EC)

The delta between DIN and EC is the addition of a 75 kg driver.

Seems that:
...

• AWD/WB adds 121 lbs over the corresponding 2WD/NB version
• Cabriolet adds 187-188 lbs as compared to its Coupe version

Not listed above is PDK, but it adds 66 lbs.

Lightest (6MT C2 Coupe) to heaviest (C4S Cab with PDK) is a 396 lbs difference, or a 12.7% increase over the base Coupe.

The 997.2 'S' engine (385 hp) has an 11.6% increase in peak power over the base engine (345 hp).

Karl.

PS: There's lies, damn lies, and anything I quote in the above

sandwedge

Add the occasional assurance by some posters here that IMS failure is a non issue on cars 2006 and newer and some first time Porsche buyers with low risk tolerance doing their due diligence may be dragged into a situation they tried hard to avoid. IMS failures on 2006, 2007 and 2008 997's are rare for sure but to call it a non issue simply isn't good or helpful information for those looking for it. A low failure rate doesn't make it a non issue.

Charles Navarro

Very true. We usually get one email a day with people looking at buying a 06-08. Although the failure rate is indeed low, they do fail. The best thing anyone can do it have the grease seal removed to let the engine oil lubricate the original bearing. This also lets you check the condition of the bearing while you are in there:

https://lnengineering.com/products/i...s/my06-08.html

qikqbn

Doug H , this again? I thought we were past this, but when you claim I am posting misinformation and then throw out some wild claim of 20% or higher failure rate for 2001-2005 IMS, I have to call you out on it and defend the information I shared. So, just to be straight, you are getting your data from a rennlist poll made by enthusiasts on a forum where people come to share problems? I would say that is a small and concentrated poll/data sample at best. Then you toss in a hypothetical situation about how this number should be higher because everyone was swapping out ims bearings before they inevitably grenaded. Where is your data for that? Have you ever considered what percentage of all those bearings swapped out due to fear were in perfectly pristine condition and could have gone another 100k miles?? I know for a fact the bearing I swapped out of my 996 engine at 65k miles did not need to be changed and was in pristine condition. You seem to want to help the "impressionable, non-educated purchaser", but with that kind of fear mongering 10's of thousands of happy 996 owners, still running original IMS bearings 15-20 years old, would never have taken the risk and experienced the joy of owning a 911. At this point in the game everyone has heard of the IMS bearing issues. It's a $2000 fix for peace of mind. That's all we need to know and say about it.

Just to clarify where I got my "data" and why I mentioned 7-10% in the post above. From an interview I read a long time ago with Stephen M Harris who filed the PCA class action lawsuit. I am sure he studied the subject matter to ad nauseum.

"The lawsuit, “Eisen v. Porsche Cars North America Inc.,” was filed by Glendale, CA, attorney Stephen M. Harris. It became a class action covering the IMS bearing claims of all owners of certain Porsches — most 2001–05 Boxsters and most 2001–05 911s other than the Turbos, GT2s and GT3s. The class action covers a total of 57,929 Porsches. Harris explained that the IMS bearing in these cars was simply “not robust enough.” He said the failure rate for the IMS bearing was “around 10%.” He also pointed out that Porsche repaired approximately 3,100 of these cars at a cost of over $20 million. The lawsuit was filed to pursue the claims of the remaining affected owners." "Harris points out, the failure rate is about 10%. That means that about 90% of these cars will never experience an IMS bearing failure."

Bottom line, life is full of risks and there are no guarantees. Do your homework and buy at your own risk. Especially when it comes to 10-20 year old Porsches.

btw... The OP stated he wants a 997.2 PDK car with no IMS , so now that he is educated and up to date on 997.1 issues I am sure you will be happy to "educate" new and impressionable buyers on 997.2 issues and how pdk failures, even though they are very rare, are a "non issue" too. Yet for peace of mind, it is still best to buy a $4k extended warranty.