G.I.G.

I tend to agree with this statement. I have a theory that if you were to bore scope the #6 cylinder in any .1 with more than 20k or 30k miles, you would see "streaks" or "scuffs" similar to the ones we continue to see people posting lately. I believe that to be true with the .2's as well, but due to the lower production numbers and fewer failures, not as many people are calling for bore scopes on the .2's as they are for the .1's when having a PPI completed.

I know my #6 cylinder looks like many that have been posted here, and I've exchanged messages on the back channel with others (who feared getting flamed on here) who have cylinders that look like mine (or worse), yet they have driven their cars like that for years and tens of thousands of miles worry free.

I plan on installing the LN low temp T-stat and 3rd radiator (already purchased) this Spring along with a new water pump, coolant, etc. and switching to Millers CFS 10w-50 NT+ (per Baz' recommendation) for preventative measures. Beyond that, I'm just going to drive my car and enjoy it.

Ohio Performance

Is T4S from the scored pole sticky the same as the OP? T4S has just discover his .2 with scored bore with 75k.

I’m still loving this car with all quirks and issues.

Doug H

Pretty much what I said above, but I would offer this. Most 997.2 owners report zero use in oil or very little oil consumption between oil changes. This seems to be a common symptom for scoring even if no piston slap sound or smoke on start up.

Doug H

Heck yeah. I was pretty blown away that Jake was going to do a rebuild on the silver car in his last video with absolutely no signs of scoring. Why are people running to get rebuilds with perfectly running and driving cars and why are people rebuilding the same. If the cars runs and drives great, who fricking cares. I wonder if this scuffing could be seen on a lot of cars and trucks, but no one cares or ever looks, much less panics and drops $25k large for a rebuild.

Steph1

You mean that the oil consumption could be a clue of bore scoring on a .2 ??? But if oil makes it passed the combustion chamber due to scoring, how can the pipes not get soothed ??? unless it is really not a big deal and the scoring is negligible. Or thinking as I'm writing this, the cats would be sufficient to burn that minimal oil seepage.

Doug H

I dunno about any of that, but back to the bigger question . . . why are people getting rebuilds on scored engines if the car runs fine. Jake says most of his tickets and work orders are of cars that ran fine or perhaps a little smoke at start up. Why are people rebuilding these engines, because someone tells them it needs a rebuild for $25k large. Does it really even matter if an engine has mild scoring? Is it possible engines from many manufacturers across the board have some slight scuffing or boring, but no one cares or it doesn't really matter? Is it possible these cars are fine and don't need rebuilds after all?

G.I.G.

I thought the same thing! LOL. When I saw that silver car in the video and heard that a potential buyer saw those streaks during their PPI then backed out of the sale, I thought to myself "Well, time to find another buyer". Now I understand why people trade these cars in vs. dealing with Rennlist, PCA, etc. If I had to sell or trade my 911 tomorrow, I would do so with a clean conscious.

My '07 4Runner is almost due for spark plugs. I'm thinking I'm going to buy a bore scope and scope the cylinders just out of my own curiosity. I know it's apples-to-oranges (my 4R has the 4.7L V8 with the cast iron block), but with 170k miles on the clock, I doubt my 4Runner has pristine cylinders at this point. Yet people are getting 350k-400k miles easily out the 4.7L with little to no loss in compression or increased oil consumption. I don't have any false hopes that I'm going to get Toyota'esque longevity out of my 911, but I have no doubt I should be able to easily exceed 100k miles (currently I'm at 54k) if I follow the recommendations of the experts here (low temp T-stat, thicker oil, warming the car up properly, etc.).

Doug H

I completely get full disclosure and etc., but have we been conditioned to believe something is actually much worse than it really is?

Once we hit about 40 or so, almost everyone has degenerative changes in their spine that can be easily seen on an MRI and X-Ray. Chiros use these findings to say look, you have X, Y and Z and you need treatment when most do not, especially if they are asymptomatic. Most can go through their entire life with any treatment even though they have degenerative changes in their backs and necks. Perhaps not a great example, but are we just shyting on a bunch of perfectly good cars and rebuilding a bunch of perfectly fine engines because we are conditioned to think a little scuffing is the end of the world?

Iceter

Just another data point. In addition to Bruce, another member of this board, gopirates, had the engine of his 2009 C2 replaced by the dealer under CPO for bore scoring. I don't know the previous life of his car, but he drives carefully, services methodically and we live in a warm climate.

OTOH, I drive my 2009 C2 like a bat out of hell, have 85k on it and am showing no obvious signs of bore scoring (knocking on wood now).

cwheeler

First off, Chiropractic "doctors" sell snake oil. That's fact. No debating that. Do they help some people, sure, but their is no basis in science for what they do. None.

Secondly, why do people buy 25k engines from Jake when they have no to mild symptoms? Because they want to, They have the money, it's an opportunity to upgrade, it's fun, status symbol, makes their car unique, or any other combination of known and unknown rational.

Hell, I want a Raby engine. They are badass. My engine doesn't need any work. But I'll get one at some point.

Cw

Wayne Smith

My phone continues to blank out replies and mismatch replies to the poster and I can't find the specific posts (no search function on this phone app) at this point but briefly ...

11 years and some billions of miles have been stated here. That's a lot of experience.

Baz states he has seen a case of cold seizure but beyond that states the 9A1 is extremely reliable.

Jake opened up an early 9A1 to see how it works.

In Jake's M9X class he suggests that the 9A1 chain guides may need to be replaced.

Bronze had a case with fuzzy background that appears to be similar to Baz's cold seizure case. As of now I know of no public word on Jake's response or non response to Baz requesting photos to compare.

Someone had a 9A1 failure at 5K miles that the dealer (and Porsche) took care of.

A recent PPI indicated a scratch that may or may not be indicative of future bore scoring. What air filters were used and was maintenance on the filters properly done? I've seen worse scratches on dirt bikes running K&N filters.

In other words ... There have been so few failures that with such limited data anything we can deduce is strictly noise.

And this has catalyzed how much doom and gloom discussion? Are we so bored we need to wallow in this crap? Warm up properly and go out and drive. Enjoy your car.

2010 C4S PDK with 132K miles and all OEM excluding motor mounts and minimal maintenance items. Never burned a drop of Mobil One 0-40 oil. Over a million miles driven and countless different cars. I've never had a car as cheap per mile to drive.

BTW (frustrated writing in the help section to deaf ears) ... I moderate an AMG Forum. I've got search. Posts don't delete and scramble. Update rates are good. It's free while I pay to belong here. Why can't we get an app here that actually functions? Android phone for what it's worth.

Ohio Performance

OP is this the car?
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post16385202

Doug H

Candidly, I would rather take the $25k, probably much more for his performance builds, and purchase a 997.1 Turbo or a 997.2 Turbo for the same total out of pocket expense rather than dump $25k plus, into a car now barely worth much more with the rebuilt.

TopKatz

Please correct me if I’m wrong on this but unlike IMS failure where the motor literally grenades bore score typically does not result in instantaneous catastrophic failure. Because of this the number of cases is obscure for both 997 versions. It would appear due to the changes in the .2 it is less prone. To what degree nobody real knows and the statistics are highly subjective and not a controlled set of data from multiple sources.

PV997

So once again the board is all riled up by someone who drops a turd and disappears. The OP has only two posts and joined Rennlist two days ago. All we have are two blurry photos that may or may not be scoring, it's impossible to tell if there is any depth to the scratches. It's like Pavlov's dogs, some yahoo rings a bell and we all start salivating. And as usual, no useful info was provided (such as the VIN so it can be avoided) but just another scare story. Enough is enough.