Doug H

I purchased a 2006 Elise new and killed 3 transmissions and engine in that car. All were covered under warranty at $16k a pop per transmission and $25k for the engine. A friend of mine has a Lotus dealership and I hear the new ones still have a fair amount of issues. The Evora 400 also lost the magic and feel of the Elise and Exige.

So much for Toyota reliability. Just purchase a GT3 with a Mezger. You can get one if those relatively cheap.

Woukd still be nice to link up the car so no one else gets burned by it.

SpeedyD

Sold a 996 C4S due to IMS fears? Why not just do the upgrade? Odd.

Spooked by a "well-documented" failure rate of 1 car out of 70,000 cars. Okay...

Cumulative mileage on 9A1 DFI cars is well over 6 billion miles by now. These aren't new cars with new issues popping up.

IMS issues popped up well before 10 years had passed from the first problematic cars (the 2000+ cars and the issue starting getting widespread coverage in 2006/2007). We are about twice that time frame out for the 997.2 and in an era where more people are online and active in forums. Twice the ownership period with more than twice the rate of online forum usage and... statistically insignificant numbers of issues.

For those saying this is owner bias, I purchased a 986 last year and spent the $$ with eyes wide open to upgrade the bearing. No bias for one model vs. another.

Look at it this way, one way or another someone rejoined or accessed Rennlist JUST to post a speculative picture of this "issue". There is no statistically material or relevant 997.2 bore scoring issue.

Fined

^^^^ That about sums it up. Suspect at best.

qikqbn

I consider many of you brothers in arms because we live in the 997 trenches... also known as "Rennlist 997 Forum" , but another thread started about possible 997.2 bore scoring that takes jabs at 996/997.1 .... ugh.. This comparison and topic are so last year.... and the year before that...and the year before that!

Just to be fair and for the record.... 997.2 9A1 engine bore scoring was being fixed by Jake Raby back in 2010. 1 year after the 997.2 engines came out... In 2011 One 997.2 Jake worked on did not even have it's first oil change, less than 5,000 miles, before developing bore scoring and a broken piston rings. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post11435521

What does this mean??? That bad stuff happens and it will continue to happen to both gens more and more as these cars get older. Some are lucky and never have a single issue in over 100k+ miles for either gen of 997, and others take a major punch to the gut immediately after purchase... It happens, it sucks, and it is unfortunate.

Do your due diligence and get the car inspected, but at this point in time, no matter which gen you buy just be aware. If you are purchasing a 10+ year old high performance sports car that loves to be revved up by all it's previous owners like a bachelor night in Bangkok , then purchase at your own risk. Have a rainy day fund put aside, fix the known weak links if you can and get a car from a warm climate location. Who knows... you may get lucky and enjoy it for your whole term of ownership with no issues and join us in the trenches to discuss the real issues that perplex us everyday... like PSE vs Gundo/Fister hack and Cimarepair vs MaCarbon.

ThomasCarreraGTS

In general, I agree with you, Bruce. Sure, you can break any car if you try hard enough. It all depends on how the previous owner(s) treated the car. If the car was treated the way that idiot "Ideal Cars" YouTuber guy treats his 997.1, then yes, you can expect to have issues. I put 96,610 miles on my 2003 996.2 and have driven over 1,000,000 miles on my other cars, including multiple Porsches, all without any major issues. I run my cars real hard, but I don't rev them cold and I do all my maintenance as recommended by the manufacturer. You can't just blame a car when it succumbs to owner abuse.

Bash Hat

Can I ask why you’re selling your car so soon after getting it back?

snaphappy

I remember Jake Raby saying you can’t bore scope a 997.2 by removing the plugs. Is that right?

linderpat

see this: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...g-the-pdk.html

Petza914

Good info and you should post the VIN and color combo and/or pics of the car and the selling dealer. Now that the dealer knows that engine has scoring, I'm sure they leave this undisclosed and sell it to a less savvy buyer.

You say "no signs evident" but an AOS change 12,000 miles ago and still smoke on startup are exactly the signs that were corroborated by the boroscope. A manometer reading should be added to the tests for anyone having a PPI done to look for a combustion chamber sealing or AOS issues, like scoring.

Personally, I think there are a lot of both .1 and .2 cars running around with scuffed/scored bores without anyone being aware of it. I recently discovered my RUF R-Kompressor has very light scuffing/scoring in #6 - according to Jake and Charles, it's the earliest they've ever seen it CAUGHT and will probably continue to run just fine for a couple more years with a higher film strength oil and more frequent oil changes. I don't have the money to fix it so that's the current plan. The car has an intake leak that threw a CEL which is what had me start investigating. Haven't had the time to fix the intake leak which is causing a lean reading on Bank 2 and a rich condition. Worried about cylinder washing, I haven't driven the car until I can get the vacuum leak taken care of, but it's behind the alternator, and the supercharger accessories are in the way, so it's a more involved job I just haven't had the time, or frankly the desire, to do - I'd rather be riding dirt bikes with my son, driving the other working ones.

The car was washed and put under a cover in the garage on the normal Battery Tender with fuel stabilizer, where it's been since October.

f911

Is this the same kind of symptom of bore scores that exist in M97 and 997.2?

pascalemod

My local race track has a 4S and 2S for track day / sports car rental. A 997.2 PDK.

They on purpose have it because it is reliable and on purpose also avoid the 997.1 because it is less so due to bore scoring. So I dunno. Gonna ask them more about this.

f911

I don't think they don't have 997.1 because of fear of bore score. Running on the track does not cause a bore score and there are a lot of 997.1 driving on the track .. I think the reason why the track owners / rental companies buy newer vehicles ;-)

Doug H

I don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty that running on the track does not cause or exacerbate scoring. Baz noting that perhaps he has seen less scoring with tiptrontic transmissions because it starts out in second gear is an observation, but not conclusive in any shape or form. Could be there are just less tiptronic equipped 997.1 Ss or perhaps people with and prone to purchasing the tiptronic torque converter slushbox drive more conservatively.

A year or two ago, t was getting slammed by people like Petza and qikqbn for saying exactly what Petza just posted . . . that many are driving around with scored 997.1 engines without a clue and the problem is way more prevalent than people realize.

I am truly sorry to hear that Petza's beautiful car is showing signs of scoring or anyone has to go through this. This should not be acceptable. Too bad those that might could help 997.1 and perhaps 9A1 engine owners as well) seem more concerned about $$$s in their own pockets than potentially assisting in holding the manufacturer responsible for those with failed engines. If it were me, I would rather have Porsche put in a new motor than being out of pocket $25k for a rebuild. Me, I just slapped a warranty on mine and my next car will be a 992 Turbo.

Will the 9A1 scoring issues arise to the level of M96/97s. Based on what I have read from Baz et al., I would say not even close or a fraction of what we are and will see with the M96/97, but clearly the (A1 is not completely immune either. There are a lot of 997.2 owners on this board and except for Bronz, I cannot recall any of the OWNERS having had a scoring issue or at least discussing a scoring issue.

As Petza mentioned, I would still like to see a link of the 997.2 that OP says has scored engines.

f911

Yes I agree.
We also need to remember that it is not easy to check bore score at 997.2. One of the reasons why we hear less about the distinction of scoring in 997.2.
By the way, in 991.2 3.0 did I realize that they changed the coating of the engine pistons? Will he be bulletproof? Thoughts ..

Steph1

Now that the number of .2 with bore scoring is slowly growing and therefore shows that it ain't exempted from it, I guess that that same statement about owners driving around with it and not even knowing, also applies here now. Especially considering that the unit discussed in subject showed zero signs of it. Still sucks, no matter which model car it is, but since it can drive around for years before really becoming problematic, I don't see what the problem is if you find that yours is scored….just drive it till it drops. I mean don't buy it if it is found during a PPi, but if it's too late......WTH!!! Maybe you've been happily and proudly driving it the last few years or months with it and didn't know..... Why make a huge deal of it the day you find out. Especially if you checked just for the heck of it without any signs. So if you already own and your car drives well, do yourself a favor and don't go look if it's going to ruin your experience. Cause there's nothing you can change about it.