Video Part 8 "The 3.8L Scoring Duo" is out
#226
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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Regarding price, expectations, and quality..... my dad purchased Cadlilacs in the '70 and on... I witnessed the drop in quality.... and the drop... and the drop. Unbelievable... but there was no legal obligation for Cadillac to produce quality or meet a price-quality standard. Not that I am aware of.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
#227
Pro
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Palos Verdes July 4th, I wasn't flying that day was collecting tickets and taking pictures.
#228
Pro
#229
Three Wheelin'
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Actually I have another GT4 in mind and can;t own 2 Porsches. So, the 997.2 has to go and already have plans to list it after the holidays. I know the 997.2s are not prone to bore scoring, I was just trying to make a statement on this thread that never seem to die with claims that 997.2's time might be next.,,,,,sooner than everybody thinks.....which is the mother of all "FALSE NEWS". With that said, watch this space (Marketplace) for a nice 997.2 coming up soon.
Here is the FOR SALE listing :
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1175310
Not too sure on the price though. Appreciate any comments whether it is a fair price.
#230
Nordschleife Master
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#231
Nordschleife Master
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I agree........ you pay a ton but get less than you expect. This is about expectations... not liability. But what I think some folks are thinking here is that Porsche has some sort of obligation to fix this stuff or at least acknowledge a problem and then help with repair or remediation. I don't agree with this. I am not saying I like it or approve of it, but they just don't have a legal responsibility, as I understand it, to produce a higher quality product. Their product is just over priced for the quality produced.... per our opinion... that sucks. But oh well.... In the free market, you move on... your choice.
Regarding price, expectations, and quality..... my dad purchased Cadlilacs in the '70 and on... I witnessed the drop in quality.... and the drop... and the drop. Unbelievable... but there was no legal obligation for Cadillac to produce quality or meet a price-quality standard. Not that I am aware of.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Regarding price, expectations, and quality..... my dad purchased Cadlilacs in the '70 and on... I witnessed the drop in quality.... and the drop... and the drop. Unbelievable... but there was no legal obligation for Cadillac to produce quality or meet a price-quality standard. Not that I am aware of.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Sandwedge:
Sounds like they have serious issues, but I don't know enough to comment. Strange as it sound with my family all pilots who typically about flying 90% of the time. Brother did F18s and now MD-11 at Fed Ex. Father was second 727 school for Eastern, 1011 and retired on Fed Ex DC-10.
What did you fly?
#232
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Doug H I am no legal expert but I do think it is a different issue because the cars keep running with bore scoring and it could be put down to wear and tear. There are also still a huge number without scoring still running after what - 15 years? Many engines are being repaired because they have scoring but are still running (unlike with IMS bearing failure) so it prolongs the scope for representing different arguments about what responsibility manufacturers have after such a long time and relatively few failures proportionally. To put it simply the numbers of engines stopping working would be almost zero and far fewer than supported the case for IMS bearing failures.
There are also a lot of contributory factors that could be used to explain why some failed and some don't that would implicate owners or service centres.
Also in UK law there is precedent for the price being related to the expectations of long life and quality and these cars were much cheaper than the more expensive versions that had better quality engines (featuring Nikasil plated cylinders).
I also think it would be easy to relate several other manufacturers with similar issues after this age and mileage and also that warnings about the prospects have been generally available for over a decade (and that prices since reflect the risk), so I think it would prove too expensive and take too long to complete a case and not at all similar to the IMS issues.
Our advice about what to do about bore scoring has to my knowledge never varied. We have always made the same overall points but we did find out the exact cause quite late on. We have never related it to some of the other causes we find regularly posted for years.
Baz
There are also a lot of contributory factors that could be used to explain why some failed and some don't that would implicate owners or service centres.
Also in UK law there is precedent for the price being related to the expectations of long life and quality and these cars were much cheaper than the more expensive versions that had better quality engines (featuring Nikasil plated cylinders).
I also think it would be easy to relate several other manufacturers with similar issues after this age and mileage and also that warnings about the prospects have been generally available for over a decade (and that prices since reflect the risk), so I think it would prove too expensive and take too long to complete a case and not at all similar to the IMS issues.
Our advice about what to do about bore scoring has to my knowledge never varied. We have always made the same overall points but we did find out the exact cause quite late on. We have never related it to some of the other causes we find regularly posted for years.
Baz
#233
Burning Brakes
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The one SOL argument might be the statement by Porsche that what should be excessive oil consumption was deemed acceptable or perfectly normal by Porsche thereby leading many to believe that these engines drinking oil at insane rates were perfectly fine and the engines were not on the slow boat to destruction. Fraud concealment type of argument that kept people from pursing the underlying issues.
I agree with the outlandishness of the oil consumption "acceptability range specification" from Porsche. I don't think Jake's or Bazz's engines fall into this specification. But on the other hand, what are the expected oil consumption rates for m9x engines from Jake's or Bazz's shops ?
I agree with the outlandishness of the oil consumption "acceptability range specification" from Porsche. I don't think Jake's or Bazz's engines fall into this specification. But on the other hand, what are the expected oil consumption rates for m9x engines from Jake's or Bazz's shops ?
Last edited by Ericson38; 12-29-2019 at 11:59 PM.
#234
Three Wheelin'
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Here is the FOR SALE listing :
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1175310
Not too sure on the price though. Appreciate any comments whether it is a fair price.
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1175310
Not too sure on the price though. Appreciate any comments whether it is a fair price.
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1175310
The 997.2 (MT) are in high demand I might kick myself down the road for selling it. Well at least now my garage have room for a GT4.
For those that are tormented by the bore-scoring problem, get a 997.2.
#235
Team Owner
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DougH, since you are sharing your professional resume I have to ask since you brought up medical devices. You don't happen to be on the Johnson & Johnson hip replacement implant legal team?
#237
#238
Instructor
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Originally Posted by TopKatz
Or it could be the reason you used to upgrade to a tt.
the hysteria of all this is a little much to be honest.
the hysteria of all this is a little much to be honest.