When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I can get those readings from my 987.2 when I get back from my trip in a week or so. Pretty easy to access the TCU on the Cayman.
BTW, heard of another shift rod sensor failure (P1733) the other day (987.2), been a few of these recently. Confirmed with one of the Alibaba sellers that they have used sensor packs in stock. Not sure if the owner is going to try to fix it but I'll try to get information if that is the case.
I may need one of those Distance/Speed sensors as well. If I end up having to crack this thing open, there will be a gear oil cooler installed while the trans is out of the car.
Check out my comment #224 about repairing the gear shift sensor itself. From looking at pictures the back of it is either potted or some type of rubbery sealant. I think it's worthwhile and would really like to try it if you know anyone who is pulling the old part out. There may even be a mil-spec Hall effect sensor available that's rated for higher temperatures and been screened. I'm pretty confident that the sensor is incredibly simple with just a few chips and some filtering caps. Certainly not worth $14k for a remanfactured transmission!
Agree, would be very interesting to open one up. Unfortunately the 987.2 owner decided to buy a remanufactured unit from Porsche so we won't get any more info from that one. Another option may be to buy a used sensor pack from China.
I may need one of those Distance/Speed sensors as well. If I end up having to crack this thing open, there will be a gear oil cooler installed while the trans is out of the car.
Ok, thanks for trying. The solenoids are just electromagnets basically, so you are reading the resistance of the windings. The other sensors are actual circuitry so the measurements probably don't mean a whole lot unless they read open or shorted. I was hoping for something a little more concrete but I guess it won't work as there are too many variables (charge stored in caps, multimeter voltage turning on semiconductors, etc.).
PM me if you need the distance/speed sensor suppliers. I've found two, one is $900, the other is $750. Cannot vouch for either of them other than they claim they are in stock. BTW, Hatzenbach did install the gear oil cooler so you may want to PM him about his experience. There's also chatter about it over on the Race forum as it's a popular 987 mod for tracked cars.
@ PV997 Thanks for the great advice on the wiring. The final determination on my failure is the distance sensor. After more conservation with my indie shop they will perform a used swap for me. I bought what I think was one of only three used PDK's that fit the 987.2 in the US. It's arriving next week. That fixes the car and solves that problem.
However, with a used unit and no core requirement. It leaves the old trans for experimentation. The shop and I have talked briefly about splitting the case and pulling the sensor. My background is IT and this would not be the first time I used a dremel tool to cut epoxy away from an IC to replace it or hack something. Not an electronics expert but I know my way around a soldering iron, digital volt meter etc. So, maybe with help from folks here on the forum we can come up with a method to repair the sensor assembly. Obviously this will require testing, someone with a failed unit willing to install the repaired sensor or trans assembly and try it out? Lots to consider.
I've been in contact with the Chinese vendor and my take on them is they have no parts and are simply fishing for someone willing to place a large order (100-200 units?) that they will then copy and manufacture. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.
@ PV997 Thanks for the great advice on the wiring. The final determination on my failure is the distance sensor. After more conservation with my indie shop they will perform a used swap for me. I bought what I think was one of only three used PDK's that fit the 987.2 in the US. It's arriving next week. That fixes the car and solves that problem.
However, with a used unit and no core requirement. It leaves the old trans for experimentation. The shop and I have talked briefly about splitting the case and pulling the sensor. My background is IT and this would not be the first time I used a dremel tool to cut epoxy away from an IC to replace it or hack something. Not an electronics expert but I know my way around a soldering iron, digital volt meter etc. So, maybe with help from folks here on the forum we can come up with a method to repair the sensor assembly. Obviously this will require testing, someone with a failed unit willing to install the repaired sensor or trans assembly and try it out? Lots to consider.
I've been in contact with the Chinese vendor and my take on them is they have no parts and are simply fishing for someone willing to place a large order (100-200 units?) that they will then copy and manufacture. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.
Thoughts? K
Hey Ken - I got the same impression from a couple of Chinese suppliers. However, there was one supplier who claimed to have the part when I contacted them and someone on another thread stated that they had received one from them. The problem is that the part is remanufactured so anyone selling these needs cores. I don't know where they are going to get these as their is no network of failed distance sensors being returned to these Chinese suppliers that I know of.
I figured out the distance sensor part number and contacted ZF directly. ZF acknowledged the PN was correct but stated their contract with Porsche forbid them from selling these to the public! This really is outrageous. So when some dirtbag service manager tells you that the parts are unavailable it's not because of circumstances or supply and demand, but because Porsche management has deliberately chosen to withhold these from the public. (This from those same pillars of corporate virtue that brought us the VW emissions scandal.) That same dirtbag service manager will happily sell you a $15k remanufactured transmission and $5k of labor though, so there's plenty of sleaziness to go around. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the legality of all this but it stinks to high heaven.
This is why I want to figure out a way to repair these and post it in detail. I'm confident it can be reverse engineered, also the sensor has four channels so if one fails there are three controls to test it against. Testing is simple outside the car and only requires a power supply and an o-scope. Please keep me posted and let me know how I can help, the circuitry is simple so it boils down to the feasibility of opening it up and resealing it. You're new so I wasn't able to send you a PM, so I sent a friend request. I don't really understand the system here at Rennlist but hopefully that will enable us to communicate.
Clarification: I'm not looking to sell these or start a side business or anything like that. This garbage just ticks me off and I'm tired of reading about these failures and insane $20k repair quotes. People buy a 911 to fulfill a dream and this is how it ends up? Hopefully we can help some people out.
Good move on the used transmission, please keep us posted on how that goes.
...It seems many owners have PDK problem and headache, why not file complains to German court, according to a new German law, Model Declaratory Action. 10 complaints, regardless of nationality, are enough for the German court to admit the lawsuit. The German court will publish in a lawsuit register. Other affected consumers can register in this register. In two months, the court need at least 50 consumers have registered. And Consumer need not pay for the cost of the lawsuit.
In the 1Q 2020 report, found that a German car group paid about €800 M to about 200k car owners, according to Model Declaratory Action.
Hi Neol,
Are you based in Germany? And if so, are there German 997 forums where that could be organized?
Hey Ken - I got the same impression from a couple of Chinese suppliers. However, there was one supplier who claimed to have the part when I contacted them and someone on another thread stated that they had received one from them. The problem is that the part is remanufactured so anyone selling these needs cores. I don't know where they are going to get these as their is no network of failed distance sensors being returned to these Chinese suppliers that I know of.
I figured out the distance sensor part number and contacted ZF directly. ZF acknowledged the PN was correct but stated their contract with Porsche forbid them from selling these to the public! This really is outrageous. So when some dirtbag service manager tells you that the parts are unavailable it's not because of circumstances or supply and demand, but because Porsche management has deliberately chosen to withhold these from the public. (This from those same pillars of corporate virtue that brought us the VW emissions scandal.) That same dirtbag service manager will happily sell you a $15k remanufactured transmission and $5k of labor though, so there's plenty of sleaziness to go around. I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the legality of all this but it stinks to high heaven.
This is why I want to figure out a way to repair these and post it in detail. I'm confident it can be reverse engineered, also the sensor has four channels so if one fails there are three controls to test it against. Testing is simple outside the car and only requires a power supply and an o-scope. Please keep me posted and let me know how I can help, the circuitry is simple so it boils down to the feasibility of opening it up and resealing it. You're new so I wasn't able to send you a PM, so I sent a friend request. I don't really understand the system here at Rennlist but hopefully that will enable us to communicate.
Clarification: I'm not looking to sell these or start a side business or anything like that. This garbage just ticks me off and I'm tired of reading about these failures and insane $20k repair quotes. People buy a 911 to fulfill a dream and this is how it ends up? Hopefully we can help some people out.
Good move on the used transmission, please keep us posted on how that goes.
Yeah that is crazy. This is why "right to repair" legislation is so important. IIRC Massachusetts has the strongest right to repair laws in the US I wonder if there is anything that can be done there to compel Porsche/ZF to provide parts or whatever to fix these relatively simple failures that end up super duper expensive for no reason.
997.2 GTS at 61k miles (PDK serviced about 18 months ago). Car is my DD and up to date with all services and hasn't been tracked in over a year (sadly).
Last month the white Emergency Transmission Run came on driving on the highway in 90 degree weather. Car kicked out of Sports, but all gears worked and was able to shift with paddles (and PDK continued to work). Shifts were jerky, but not too bad. Fault continued to manifest when ambient temps were > 90 degrees; no sign when they were in the 70s in the morning. Took it to my indy and it showed P0352 and P2305, and a bunch of U codes. He replaced all coils and plugs and recalibrated the PDK. Got it back and it drove fine for two days.
Yesterday the white ETR sign came back on (ambient temp 75) and this time the PDK remained in the gear it was in (3rd). I was able to drive to a side street; switched it off and then back on, everything cleared and I drove a mile to my garage and parked. Then on the way back home about 15 mins into the drive (90 degree weather), the white ETR was back, it locked the transmission in the gear it was in (5th). I tried my best but came up on some traffic and pulled over to the shoulder. Turned it off, and back on. Now the CEL came on (and the white ETR), and no gears were selectable at all. Moving the PDK into drive caused the 1/2 signs to flash in the gear selection window, but neither the paddles or the PDK would engage. Have taken it back to the indy (after a five-hour wait for a tow - that's another story) and am awaiting PIWIS readout. I tried to drive it when the tow truck dropped it off, but even after five hours of cooling off, the same faults persisted. Clearly something the Indy did changed the "curve" of the problem - awaiting news with a certain grimness.
Anything to probe on when I speak with the Indy? Thanks for this massively good thread.
997.2 GTS at 61k miles (PDK serviced about 18 months ago). Car is my DD and up to date with all services and hasn't been tracked in over a year (sadly).
Last month the white Emergency Transmission Run came on driving on the highway in 90 degree weather. Car kicked out of Sports, but all gears worked and was able to shift with paddles (and PDK continued to work). Shifts were jerky, but not too bad. Fault continued to manifest when ambient temps were > 90 degrees; no sign when they were in the 70s in the morning. Took it to my indy and it showed P0352 and P2305, and a bunch of U codes. He replaced all coils and plugs and recalibrated the PDK. Got it back and it drove fine for two days.
Yesterday the white ETR sign came back on (ambient temp 75) and this time the PDK remained in the gear it was in (3rd). I was able to drive to a side street; switched it off and then back on, everything cleared and I drove a mile to my garage and parked. Then on the way back home about 15 mins into the drive (90 degree weather), the white ETR was back, it locked the transmission in the gear it was in (5th). I tried my best but came up on some traffic and pulled over to the shoulder. Turned it off, and back on. Now the CEL came on (and the white ETR), and no gears were selectable at all. Moving the PDK into drive caused the 1/2 signs to flash in the gear selection window, but neither the paddles or the PDK would engage. Have taken it back to the indy (after a five-hour wait for a tow - that's another story) and am awaiting PIWIS readout. I tried to drive it when the tow truck dropped it off, but even after five hours of cooling off, the same faults persisted. Clearly something the Indy did changed the "curve" of the problem - awaiting news with a certain grimness.
Anything to probe on when I speak with the Indy? Thanks for this massively good thread.
Sam
Hey Sam - Neither of the two codes you posted are PDK codes so I'm not sure what that means. U-codes in regards to the PDK typically are CAN bus issues and there is some problem with control module communication. One thing we have seen is that faults in the ECU can trigger phantom faults in the PDK and visa versa. Now that you have a hard fault it's likely there are some actual PDK codes stored, hopefully not the dreaded distance sensor fault we've been discussing. Please post the faults after you hear from your indy and that should give us more to go on.
Here's two good high resolution photos of the distance sensor, anyone have an idea as to how that's sealed? Looks like some sort of potting to me. Those four caps on the edge look like they correspond to the locations of the Hall effect sensors based on the shift rod proximity. Would be nice if that whole backside pealed off along with those caps on the side.
So here are the codes:
P1731 - infamous gear shift selection sensor?
P0700
P5400
The Indy says for the gear shift selection sensor for my 997.2 GTS isn't available? Is that true? Any suggestions?
Wow, was hoping that wasn't it but the P173x code is not good. The gear shift selector sensor is also known as the distance sensor and that's a picture of it right above your comment. We've had a wave of these recently I think is tied to warm weather. Read the last thirty comments or so as it's been a hot topic.
The sensor is not available from Porsche or ZF as Porsche has effectively implemented a cartel on these transmissions. We know exactly what the part is, and its part number, but they will not sell it and insist you buy a remanufactured transmission. Seriously, we need a lawyer to dig into this as it's sketchy on so many levels.
So you have four choices as another commenter summed up earlier in the thread:
Remanufactured transmission from Porsche ($14k)
Used junkyard transmission (maybe $7k depending on condition)
Attempt to source a remanufactured sensor from China (not a lot of luck here) (~$1k)
Attempt to repair the sensor by replacing internal components ($20)
None of this includes the labor to R&R the transmission of course. The more I dig into this the more I think repair is feasible but we need a failed sensor to give it a shot.
Last edited by PV997; 07-16-2020 at 05:50 PM.
Reason: typo
Need advice and thanks in advance!
My 997.2 PDK Fault code is P1731, Porsche center informs me to replace PDK control software, parts number 997 618 270 40.
Is this workable or not?
Your advice is appreciated!
Need advice and thanks in advance!
My 997.2 PDK Fault code is P1731, Porsche center informs me to replace PDK control software, parts number 997 618 270 40.
Is this workable or not?
Your advice is appreciated!
A P173x code means the distance sensor is providing a signal outside the normal 10% to 90% pulse width range. Usually this would mean there is an open or a short circuit so instead of there being a pulse, the signal will be 0% (open) or 100% (shorted). As has been discussed, the distance sensor is inside the gearbox section of the transmission and Porsche will not provide a replacement.
The part number quoted is for the transmission control unit (TCU), a computer inside the car that reads signals from the distance sensor and others. Why does the Porsche dealer think the TCU is bad and not the distance sensor itself? What exactly have they done to diagnose it? A new TCU from a dealer will cost you a minimum of $1000. It's possible the problem is in the TCU but much more likely the problem is the distance sensor itself in my opinion. Did they take measurements on the distance sensor and the TCU to isolate the issue?
It would be great if the TCU was the issue as it's much less expensive to fix. But unless they have solid evidence the TCU is the problem it sounds to me like they want to throw parts at the problem. It's your call if you want to go along with this. Personally, this is exactly why I never take my car to a Porsche dealership. I expect a detailed methodical diagnosis using some critical thinking, not some guy following a flow chart and throwing parts at the problem (at my expense) in the hopes it fixes it.
Please ask them exactly why they think it's the TCU and post their response here so the rest of us can learn from it. Thanks!
Hi,
i have been following your thread w ith great interest,
Im also working on these transmissions i have 2 right now with the rod displacement sensor problem on a cayman and 991 carrera. Man i have to ask you are you confident that you can reverse engineer this sensor? If so i will send you one that we can collaborate on so we can test this out.. im tired of the alibaba suppliers who keep changing their already exorbitant pricing and cant guarantee anything but get your money.. let me know sir!😊
07-14-2020, 07:13 PM
