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Are you sure the valvebody aka "mechatronic" doesn't have any processors or can communication in it? I thought it did have some "smarts" to talk to the TCU but I could very well be mistaken, you know way more than me.
With BMW transmissions, swapping out the mechatronic you need to swap out the old "EGS" portion of your old mechatronic to the new one because there is smarts in there that is coded to your car.
maybe there is some electronic portion of the porsche mechatronic that could/has to be swapped separate from the valves and solenoids like BMW?
Positive. The BMW mechtronic has the equivalent of the TCU within the transmission itself (pretty stupid as it's a harsh environment for electronics). All the 997/987 PDK transmission has is the eight solenoids (2 binary, 6 pressure regulators), an analog temp sensor, two analog pressure sensors, four PWM distance sensors, and two PWM speed sensors. That is it. I was shocked to realize this as there is so much nonsense out there about how sophisticated the PDK is thus rendering it unserviceable. It's all BS propaganda probably originating from Porsche.
Edit: The 991/981 adds an additional temp sensor (gear oil) and another solenoid and pressure sensor for the locking differential (if applicable) but is otherwise the same. Saw your update subaru, that's exactly the difference.
911 PDK Transmission Pressure Sensor Experience With the Dealership
Thank you for your Guide to Repairing a PDK Transmission. I have a 2012 911 Carrera 997, PDK transmission, with less than 50,000 miles. I drive my car with the utmost of care and house it in garage. I took my car to my trusted mechanic for a Transmission Emergency Run warning light. When the warning light appears the transmission immediately defaults/shifts into second gear. I resolved the issue by turning off the car and restarting it. This happened to me 3 times but the car/transmission is still driving normally. My mechanic ran a diagnostic test revealing an issue with the #2 transmission pressuresensor. He told me he could replace the sensor but he could not calibrate it. He suggested I take the car to the local Porsche dealership. After the car was at the dealership for 2 days, the Porsche service advisor told me PDK transmissions are not accessible, not serviceable, no parts are available to replace sensors, and I would have to purchase a $24,000+ transmission plus 10 hours of labor. The service advisor also suggested spending $735 to check on the transmission wiring and found no problem with the ICU or the wires. I read your article and was able to locate a replacement sensor (9G130738505) for $200 at a different dealership. I confronted the service manager with your article and he admitted he is not recommending a new transmission. He identified the problem sensor but told me he does not have a work construction on how to change the sensor. I told him to read your article. Outcome is pending...any advice?
Hi LTs911 - Congratulations as I think you are the first person to get a dealership to admit these transmissions can be repaired. I think you unintentionally confused him though. That pressure sensor is listed in the 997.2 parts catalog, but they don't show where it goes. It also shows up in the 991 catalog as the same sensor is also used on the exterior of the 991 PDK to measure gear oil pressure and is replaceable (the 997 PDK does not have this feature). So he's probably scratching his head trying to figure out why the part is listed but he has no instructions how to replace it on your car.
BTW, the same sensor is also used on other makes so if you search on the ZF OEM part number (ZF 0501 326 481) you can find it for under $75 and avoid the Porsche tax.
Looks like you have three choices. You can try and talk the dealer into doing in but I don't think you'll have much luck. As he mentioned they don't have work instructions. I'm sure they could figure it out but doing so will run afoul of Mother Porsche. Porsche has a nice little operation running where they sell $14k transmissions when $100 parts break, I doubt a dealer would be willing to rock the boat.
The second option is to DIY or have an indy do the replacement then flatbed the car to the dealer and pay them to perform the calibration. They are probably willing to do this with their service tool (called a PIWIS) but it won't be cheap, probably something like $500. This is a standard procedure for them and they have the work instructions to do it.
The third option is to DIY or have an indy do the work and to buy your own PIWIS clone and do the calibration yourself. I've got one of these, along with several other regular posters here, and I can tell you that it will do the job. If you want to know more about this check out the link from Planet 9 below. The PIWIS clone will run between $400 and $500 and it's shipped from China. It's also really nice to have one around as it's got pretty amazing capabilities.
EDIT: Check out comment #119 as Alexey did a DIY on this sensor and reported things went well. Also please post your fault codes if you have them. Thanks.
Cayman is 2015 GTS
my invoice had a PDK R Transmission part number, similar to the 987.2 Cayman R transmission
Callace Rennsport is an independent shop, they make their own decisions apart from Porsche. Tony Callace has over 30 years experience on Porsche's, ran the Porsche Le Mans team, and is currently one of two people trained by ZF to work on the PDK. He would have replaced internal parts if they were available or it was worth the time and effort. My transmission does not have replacement parts unfortunately. Maybe other PDK variants do, I don't know. I trust Callace Rennsport and his knowledge and experience. I spoke to LN Engineering after the diagnosis and they confirmed everything Callace and Porsche said regarding my situation.
I think your right about the PDK eventually being serviceable, but for now it is out of reach since there are no parts aside from some solenoids. Unless a shop has taken one apart, I don't know of any, I don't see it being an easy thing to fix anytime soon.
No shops will warranty any work if non-OEM parts are used either. Too much liability. My PDK is a remanufactured unit from Porsche with a warranty so I have that going for me. I wouldn't want to roll the dice on aftermarket parts for the PDK.
You can ask LN about all the Macan PDK's they've replaced this year, and those are street cars, it's a lot.
I've seen the video of the 911 doing launches back to back, that doesn't mean anything for longevity. Let's see that car after 80k miles.
We all know there are some PDK failures out there but saying they are bond to fail if you track them or put lots of miles on them makes no sense. There are lots of high mileage PDK cars listed in the over 100K miles thread here on Rennlist with zero PDK issues. LN engineering and other race shops rave about how reliable the PDK is on the track as long as you change the fluid frequently. They recommend something like a drain and fill of the fluid after every two events and replace the filer (with pan for EOM, filter only for BRS pan) fairly regularly as well for race cars. I DE my 997.2 Targa and I have 6 days this year alone with 11 days last year. My Targa has 59K miles on it. I drain and fill the PDK clutch fluid every other event and change the pan (I use OEM pan) at the end of the HPDE season. A friend of mine has a 981 Cayman S with PDK and he has like 40K track miles on it with zero PDK issues. All he does is drain and fill the fluid every two events as well and I don't think he has ever changed his pan (could be wrong on that though). Sucks that yours failed, but I see it as an outlier.
Hi my 997 PDK shutdown at 43000 km, on May 31, now porsche center informed me the fault code p1731. it is the same answer that porsche center informed me " PDK transmissions are not accessible, not serviceable, no parts are available to replace sensors" and I must buy a new transmission.
Porsche dealer should have informed customer when we buy a 911 that " PDK transmissions are not accessible, not serviceable, no parts are available to replace sensors" , when it fail owner must buy a new transmission.
This is not honest!
It seems many owners have PDK problem and headache, why not file complains to German court, according to a new German law, Model Declaratory Action. 10 complaints, regardless of nationality, are enough for the German court to admit the lawsuit. The German court will publish in a lawsuit register. Other affected consumers can register in this register. In two months, the court need at least 50 consumers have registered. And Consumer need not pay for the cost of the lawsuit.
In the 1Q 2020 report, found that a German car group paid about €800 M to about 200k car owners, according to Model Declaratory Action.
I have taken the back seats and carpet etc. out in search of the TCU and not sure where it is located. Any chance anyone has better direction than:
"In the 997 the TCU is located in the rear of the vehicle interior beneath the door opening."
There is a unit under the carpet below the Bose speaker with part # 997.618.607.055 (I think, but its hard to read upside down and backwards in a mirror). Thanks.
I have taken the back seats and carpet etc. out in search of the TCU and not sure where it is located. Any chance anyone has better direction than:
"In the 997 the TCU is located in the rear of the vehicle interior beneath the door opening."
There is a unit under the carpet below the Bose speaker with part # 997.618.607.055 (I think, but its hard to read upside down and backwards in a mirror). Thanks.
This is for the 997.2 turbo but all that I've found.
Edit: A bit of a discrepancy as that post initially says the passenger side but the WM says the driver side and later in that post it says the driver side. Take a look at this link, it's #7, driver side. Current PN is 997.618.270.40 but it's been superseded a few times so the last two digits may not match.
Hi my 997 PDK shutdown at 43000 km, on May 31, now porsche center informed me the fault code p1731. it is the same answer that porsche center informed me " PDK transmissions are not accessible, not serviceable, no parts are available to replace sensors" and I must buy a new transmission.
Porsche dealer should have informed customer when we buy a 911 that " PDK transmissions are not accessible, not serviceable, no parts are available to replace sensors" , when it fail owner must buy a new transmission.
This is not honest!
It seems many owners have PDK problem and headache, why not file complains to German court, according to a new German law, Model Declaratory Action. 10 complaints, regardless of nationality, are enough for the German court to admit the lawsuit. The German court will publish in a lawsuit register. Other affected consumers can register in this register. In two months, the court need at least 50 consumers have registered. And Consumer need not pay for the cost of the lawsuit.
In the 1Q 2020 report, found that a German car group paid about €800 M to about 200k car owners, according to Model Declaratory Action.
Yeah it's a racket alright but it doesn't seem like failures are all that common (little comfort if it happens to you I realize). This post has been up since December and maybe ten people have commented or PM'd that their PDK failed despite this post being the first hit on google under "PDK transmission repair". The good news is that this transmission is very reliable and now we know enough about how it works that the most common failures can be fixed. The catch is that you are probably going to have to fix it yourself unless you are on really good terms with an indy that is willing to give it a try. Most won't as others have commented.
I wrote the post because I got tired of comments about the PDK being failure prone, disposable, and people saying you had to purchase a warranty. IMO that is complete nonsense, I'm not going to spend $4k on a warranty against a $16k failure unless it has around a 25% chance of occurring. In reality it's less than 1% I think based on the reports. Even then, I'm confident I can fix it if it does fail. Hopefully others feel the same way. I'll be happy when people roll their eyes and laugh when some dealership service adviser tells them they need to spend $15k to $20k because a $50 part failed. I really don't see how some of these guys sleep at night as they have to know it's not true. Anyone with a shred of common sense can figure that out yet they financially ruin people rather than rock the boat.
I agree that people should file a complaint but most of us didn't buy our car from Porsche so I'm not sure it's applicable. What is the latest with your car? Are you going to try and fix it?
Edit: LOL, I just looked at what else comes up when you google "PDK Transmission Repair". The first hits after this post are:
Yeah it's a racket alright but it doesn't seem like failures are all that common (little comfort if it happens to you I realize). This post has been up since December and maybe ten people have commented or PM'd that their PDK failed despite this post being the first hit on google under "PDK transmission repair". The good news is that this transmission is very reliable and now we know enough about how it works that the most common failures can be fixed. The catch is that you are probably going to have to fix it yourself unless you are on really good terms with an indy that is willing to give it a try. Most won't as others have commented.
I wrote the post because I got tired of comments about the PDK being failure prone, disposable, and people saying you had to purchase a warranty. IMO that is complete nonsense, I'm not going to spend $4k on a warranty against a $16k failure unless it has around a 25% chance of occurring. In reality it's less than 1% I think based on the reports. Even then, I'm confident I can fix it if it does fail. Hopefully others feel the same way. I'll be happy when people roll their eyes and laugh when some dealership service adviser tells them they need to spend $15k to $20k because a $50 part failed. I really don't see how some of these guys sleep at night as they have to know it's not true. Anyone with a shred of common sense can figure that out yet they financially ruin people rather than rock the boat.
I agree that people should file a complaint but most of us didn't buy our car from Porsche so I'm not sure it's applicable. What is the latest with your car? Are you going to try and fix it?
Edit: LOL, I just looked at what else comes up when you google "PDK Transmission Repair". The first hits after this post are:
Is the PDK the new IMS?
Porsche PDK Repair, not for the faint-hearted
PDK problems require full replacement
and on it goes ad nauseum
Haha "Is PDK the new IMS?" is probably an accurate title because the IMS was an overblown problem that only affects like 1% of cars too.
Bore scoring on 3.6 and 3.8 M96/M97 motors seems like a bigger issue than either and that might be overblown as well.
I also don't know how the service advisors sleep at night after telling people to pay $15-25k to replace a transmission for a failed sensor but its not surprising from my interaction with Porsche service advisors.
The ones I have dealt with basically act like paying $$$$$ to service your porsche should be a badge of honor and if you balk at the pricing or want to DIY then you are just "one of the poors who don't deserve to own a porsche" lol
The dealerships really are spoiled by the clientele who would rather fork over rediculous money for service so they don't come across as "cheap" or "poor"
Edit: A bit of a discrepancy as that post initially says the passenger side but the WM says the driver side and later in that post it says the driver side. Take a look at this link, it's #7, driver side. Current PN is 997.618.270.40 but it's been superseded a few times so the last two digits may not match.
Dug into the lower B-pillar and found the TCU on the Driver's side.
I only had to take out the rear seats, back speakers, carpet shelf, side panel, seat belts, driver's seat, frunk/engine hood release, carpet and side wire tunnel. I ran out of time to get to the lower wires that lead to the transmission, maybe tomorrow. Plastic wire tunnel moved, driver's side just behind/below the door seal. Lots of wires connected in front of the TCU. Trans wires are plugged into the bottom.
A 911 is a collection, a good piece of art. The value of 911 is its story and integrity of its brand name.
Porsche 911 represents one of a few good cars have ever designed and built by human being since 1960. Porsche German engineers have worked honestly and diligently to improve its performance and deal with challenges. It represents German craftsmanship, high quality and precise attitude.
If I know more about DIY, I will enjoy fixing my Porsche.
BTW, it cost USD200k to buy a 4S in my city!
The company was merged and then this brand name has been consumed little by little.
Dug into the lower B-pillar and found the TCU on the Driver's side.
I only had to take out the rear seats, back speakers, carpet shelf, side panel, seat belts, driver's seat, frunk/engine hood release, carpet and side wire tunnel. I ran out of time to get to the lower wires that lead to the transmission, maybe tomorrow. Plastic wire tunnel moved, driver's side just behind/below the door seal. Lots of wires connected in front of the TCU. Trans wires are plugged into the bottom.
Good grief the TCU really buried in there. I was going to take measurements on mine but have been putting it off for this reason.
If you have access to a multimeter maybe you could get some measurements that I can add to the post? I’m trying to understand the “normal” resistance for the speed sensor and distance sensor. This would be measurements on the harness, not the TCU itself.
Speed sensor 1 (B27) to 8.5 volt supply (B18) and ground (B4)
Speed sensor 2 (B28) to 8.5 volt supply (B18) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 1 (B21) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 2 (B32) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 3 (B34) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 4 (B33) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
If you don’t have access to a meter don’t worry about it, I’ll get it on my car in the future.
Good grief the TCU really buried in there. I was going to take measurements on mine but have been putting it off for this reason.
If you have access to a multimeter maybe you could get some measurements that I can add to the post? I’m trying to understand the “normal” resistance for the speed sensor and distance sensor. This would be measurements on the harness, not the TCU itself.
Speed sensor 1 (B27) to 8.5 volt supply (B18) and ground (B4)
Speed sensor 2 (B28) to 8.5 volt supply (B18) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 1 (B21) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 2 (B32) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 3 (B34) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 4 (B33) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
If you don’t have access to a meter don’t worry about it, I’ll get it on my car in the future.
I can get those readings from my 987.2 when I get back from my trip in a week or so. Pretty easy to access the TCU on the Cayman.
BTW, heard of another shift rod sensor failure (P1733) the other day (987.2), been a few of these recently. Confirmed with one of the Alibaba sellers that they have used sensor packs in stock. Not sure if the owner is going to try to fix it but I'll try to get information if that is the case.
I can get those readings from my 987.2 when I get back from my trip in a week or so. Pretty easy to access the TCU on the Cayman.
BTW, heard of another shift rod sensor failure (P1733) the other day (987.2), been a few of these recently. Confirmed with one of the Alibaba sellers that they have used sensor packs in stock. Not sure if the owner is going to try to fix it but I'll try to get information if that is the case.
Thanks! Regarding the shift rod (distance) sensor I think we are seeing a spike with the warm weather as I've noticed more reports recently also. I keep coming back to the fact that the 997/987 does not have a gear oil cooler and these types of electronics don't like heat. Porsche added a gear oil cooler to the 991/981 and they didn't do that for no reason.
Check out my comment #224 about repairing the gear shift sensor itself. From looking at pictures the back of it is either potted or some type of rubbery sealant. I think it's worthwhile and would really like to try it if you know anyone who is pulling the old part out. There may even be a mil-spec Hall effect sensor available that's rated for higher temperatures and been screened. I'm pretty confident that the sensor is incredibly simple with just a few chips and some filtering caps. Certainly not worth $14k for a remanfactured transmission!
Good grief the TCU really buried in there. I was going to take measurements on mine but have been putting it off for this reason.
If you have access to a multimeter maybe you could get some measurements that I can add to the post? I’m trying to understand the “normal” resistance for the speed sensor and distance sensor. This would be measurements on the harness, not the TCU itself.
Speed sensor 1 (B27) to 8.5 volt supply (B18) and ground (B4)
Speed sensor 2 (B28) to 8.5 volt supply (B18) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 1 (B21) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 2 (B32) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 3 (B34) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
Distance sensor 4 (B33) to 5 volt supply (B19) and ground (B4)
If you don’t have access to a meter don’t worry about it, I’ll get it on my car in the future.
I tried to check them. Started with random numbers just quick blink on my meter - 197.2, 59, 48.3 etc. etc. for both speed sensors. Figured I was just not making good contact inside the connector. So, took it apart and same thing, random number generator blink. No info from the distance sensors either. Decided to check solenoids, all checked within range. So at least the meter and my technique seems to be sound.
Went on to check wire continuity from PDK pinout to TCU pinout for distance and speed sensors, all good. Gave the wire a little twist and turned it back into the PDK. Returned to TCU pinout and was unable to get any random number blinks at all.
What am I missing here?
Get your microscope out, these are some small wires that make some big decisions. One side removed from TCU seating connector.
07-10-2020, 01:04 PM
