When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I don't have the first document but it might not be that helpful if it's just marketing fluff. Please let me know if there is any info in it specifically on the hydraulic circuits (hydraulic schematic, description of solenoid functions, etc.).
I went through that PDK section last night. It doesn't have anything material like the things you mentioned (e.g. schematics) that would help with actual PDK debugging.
Not taking over the thread at all, any ideas that help people save $20k on a "failed" PDK are welcome. The pictures I've seen on Caymans involve drilling holes in the PDK case for the hoses but using the drain and fill holes is a great idea. For Caymans the returned (cooled) oil is shot right onto the differential which is pretty far from the fill plug. But for 997's you might not need that since the differential should not be a problem due to its location. I think that the kits are marketed toward Caymans/Boxsters is due to their unique differential orientation since they're mid-engined.
Having an air/oil cooler up at the front would be best but you might be able to get away with a water/oil cooler like is done in the 991. This is what the clutch fluid uses and you could probably scab off the coolant lines feeding it. You still need the electric pump but don't need to run gear oil lines to the front of the car.
Here's the 991 gear oil cooler, interestingly it's used in both the AT and MT (the 991 MT is based on the same gearbox as the PDK AT). It's attached to the side of the gearbox.
I just ordered the kit from BGB Motorsports and will have my shop (Alekshop in Fremont, CA) install it.
I'll update you guys here how this went, will be in a couple weeks
I just ordered the kit from BGB Motorsports and will have my shop (Alekshop in Fremont, CA) install it.
I'll update you guys here how this went, will be in a couple weeks
Wow, I like your style, please let us know how it goes. Are you going to use the drain/fill plugs or actually have them drill and tap a new hole over the differential? Also I'm curious if BGB had any feed back on using it on the 997. They have lots of comments regarding use on the 987 over in the Rennlist racing forum but have not seen mentions for use in our cars.
Here's the Porsche implementation for 991 PDKs with a locking differential, they actually have a feedline running back to the top of the diff. For non-locking diffs they don't do this but let the gear oil flow through the hollow pinion shaft.
Here's a photo of a 2015 991 PDK without the external cooling line (and presumably no locking diff), you can see the gear oil cooler at the bottom right. I think it should work well either way but I'd be interested to hear what BGB has to say.
Wow, I like your style, please let us know how it goes. Are you going to use the drain/fill plugs or actually have them drill and tap a new hole over the differential? Also I'm curious if BGB had any feed back on using it on the 997. They have lots of comments regarding use on the 987 over in the Rennlist racing forum but have not seen mentions for use in our cars.
Thank You
Their kit is using the existing fill/drain openings, this means when/if I sell the car, it should be relatively easy to put it back to stock
I exchanged a couple of e-mails with them and they said that there are a couple 997 guys who ordered their kit too.
My shop thinks the only "modification" they have to do is to cut the lines to the oil cooler to length and crimp the hydraulic fittings
My Porsche Dealer Refused Help re PDK Temp Sensor Problem
All -
Just as an FYI, I am providing my Porsche dealer's response to my request for assistance regarding my 2009 C2 going into "limp mode" on track, with the problem persisting even after having a Porsche 3rd radiator installed. Since I bought it from them in 2018 telling them I was going to track it, and this dealership is a sponsor of my local PCA, I had hoped they would offer at least some assistance without having me pay full price. Not a chance apparently.
I did provide them a copy of the official Porsche service bulletin from this sticky (I did not refer to this sticky though just in case Porsche might try to take it down). I will be looking for a shop or other Porsche dealership that is closer to my home for the PDK temp sensor repair, as I do not think they are acting honorably. Was there a recall or a warranty? No, but in this context I'd hope for something more. YMMV.
Dealership Response"Hello Jeff,
Thank you for your patience. As was explained to me by the service manager, Porsche certainly did issue a bulletin regarding the defect before your purchase of the car, but a bulletin is to inform the dealer network as to the issue and how to rectify the problem, and is not a campaign or recall which requires addressing the problem proactively due to safety as required by the government. Thus, the replacement of this part is not considered as warranty, and will not be absorbed by Porsche North America or the dealer. You’re more than welcome to contact Porsche Customer Service should you care to pursue the matter. I’m sorry that I don’t have better news, but again, this was simply a bulletin and not a campaign nor recall."
Just as an FYI, I am providing my Porsche dealer's response to my request for assistance regarding my 2009 C2 going into "limp mode" on track, with the problem persisting even after having a Porsche 3rd radiator installed. Since I bought it from them in 2018 telling them I was going to track it, and this dealership is a sponsor of my local PCA, I had hoped they would offer at least some assistance without having me pay full price. Not a chance apparently.
I did provide them a copy of the official Porsche service bulletin from this sticky (I did not refer to this sticky though just in case Porsche might try to take it down). I will be looking for a shop or other Porsche dealership that is closer to my home for the PDK temp sensor repair, as I do not think they are acting honorably. Was there a recall or a warranty? No, but in this context I'd hope for something more. YMMV.
Dealership Response"Hello Jeff,
Thank you for your patience. As was explained to me by the service manager, Porsche certainly did issue a bulletin regarding the defect before your purchase of the car, but a bulletin is to inform the dealer network as to the issue and how to rectify the problem, and is not a campaign or recall which requires addressing the problem proactively due to safety as required by the government. Thus, the replacement of this part is not considered as warranty, and will not be absorbed by Porsche North America or the dealer. You’re more than welcome to contact Porsche Customer Service should you care to pursue the matter. I’m sorry that I don’t have better news, but again, this was simply a bulletin and not a campaign nor recall."
Thanks for posting this, did they read the codes that were stored? If so, please post them so we have some additional info to analyze. Also, did the transmission return to normal behavior after it cooled down?
It's possible the transmission actually did overheat rather than a temp sensor fault. If overheating the TCU is supposed to go through a series of stages to warn the driver, the steps depending on the magnitude of the overheating. I've posted them below (from the 997 tech training manual), did you experience something like this?
If it were me I'd try to figure out if it was genuinely overheating as opposed to throwing a false code due to a faulty sensor. See the comments just above regarding the lack of a gear oil cooler on the 997's that was added to the 991s. If the overheating is real an aftermarket gear oil cooler might be an option to consider. If it's not the replacement temp sensor is cheap and it can be done DIY (see the attachment at the bottom of the main post) but you will need a PIWIS or PIWIS clone to complete the fluid fill process.
Please post the codes if you have them as it will be helpful to better understand what is going on with the PDK.
The first time the PDK went into limp mode was summer 2019 on-track at Mid-Ohio. That's when I looked into the issue and had the Porsche third radiator kit installed and the codes were pulled. I'll have to find the paperwork from back then for the codes found. The dash alert was red. Both then, as well as in October 2019 at Road America (with the third radiator installed) when the limp mode happened again (in the paddock right after a session, not on-track), thankfully turning the car off and turning it on again allowed the trans to operate normally. I did not bring my car into the Porsche dealership to have codes pulled because I wanted to work out a deal ahead of time, which as I wrote above they offered absolutely nothing.
I have an appointment at a a respected Porsche indy shop in February to have the Temp sensor repair kit installed. If that STILL does not do the trick, I'll be faced with either having the PDK gear oil cooler installed (which I believe have been told is around $3.5k??) or give up with a broken heart and look for another car to track that seems more reliable.
I have an appointment at a a respected Porsche indy shop in February to have the Temp sensor repair kit installed. If that STILL does not do the trick, I'll be faced with either having the PDK gear oil cooler installed (which I believe have been told is around $3.5k??) or give up with a broken heart and look for another car to track that seems more reliable.
If you haven't already, call John Tecce at BGB as he seems pretty confident that he can resolve the PDK issues for tracking
BGB's gear oil cooler is around $1100 for parts, Hatzenbach linked it above as he's installing one.. The PDK temp sensor in the 997's is actually in the clutch fluid chamber, not the gear oil chamber. But the gear oil can get hot enough to raise the temp of the clutch fluid and throw the fault. The 997 comes with a clutch fluid cooler but there's also an over sized clutch fluid cooler available from LN Engineering that replaces the factory fluid/water heat exchanger. Without knowing the local temps it's hard to know where the problem is originating.
Good list of the codes but if you follow the links it just takes you to page selling their service and gives no additional info unfortunately. I've got the detailed code list and descriptions but have not posted it as I don't think it's in the public domain. I'm putting together a summary of the codes and what they mean that I'll be adding to the post in the next week or so.
01-07-2020, 06:40 PM
