Jartin

Hello everyone,

I have been browsing the rennlist forums for about a year or so and now I'm about 6 months from making a purchase. I'm going to use this car as my DD, and will be driving about 20k miles per year.

My current plan is to buy a CPO 997.2 C2 or C2S. Even though I'll have the peace of mind of the 2 year unlimited mileage warranty, do you think I'll be crushed by normal maintenance costs if I bring a car from 60k miles to 100k miles in those 2 years?

Is the 997 a comfortable place to spend 10 hours per week?

I know this is a Porsche forum, but if you can't recommend a 911 for this high mileage routine, what car would you recommend?

Thanks for the help!

HenryPcar

Isn't the 997.2 way passed the CPO timeframe ? I think the last year 997.2 before the 991 came out was 2012.

Doug H

Nope.

Totally. I have used 911s as my daily drivers since about 1989. The 997.2 is a very comfortable car, super reliable and holds up well to abuse. Maintenance can be quit cheap if you know what you are doing. For instance, I literally did my wife's 997.2 front brakes for around $400. Porsche dealership wanted $1,200. Ordered the rotors and pads from FCP Euro and had the Discount Tire shop down the street install the brakes for about $100. Done.

snaphappy

I'll weigh in. Coming from Camaros and Mustangs I think the 997.2 is a great DD. It rides better than American muscle cars, it's smoother, handles bumps better, has great ac and heat, two cupholders, the PDK makes life easy, even the Bose stereo is pretty good. It doesn't have as much cargo space as American muscle cars, but it has just enough storage overall. It's also really easy to park and you can go down any road, even narrow alleys. With a C4(S) you can drive it any weather, even full on snow - although in some climates you will NEED legit winter tires.

Speaking of tires, let's talk maintenance. Tires aren't cheap and don't last very long. Michelin will only honor 15k on the rear for example. So 20k miles a year might mean a lot of tires. What about other maintenance? Well, if you're a DIYer it's not bad at all. Honestly, servicing the car myself is one of my favorite things about it. But if you're paying Porsche, or and indy, things can get pretty expensive. In my experience so far, things don't really break on Porsches very often. So it's not as if you'll be driving down the road and something literally breaks and you're SOL. Instead, things gradually wear down and need to be replaced at designated service intervals. Or there are things like the water pump. The water pump tends to last 40-60k miles. So sometimes you have to decide if you're going to do preventive maintenance, or wait and see how long your water pump will last. As another example, I just replaced a $130 throttle body on my 997.2. Mine wasn't broken. But it was worn and the car had lost some responsiveness. I didn't NEED to replace it, but installing a new one was a thrill because I got all my responsiveness back. This long paragraph hopefully gives you an idea of what maintenance will be like driving 20k a year.

Finally, putting 20k/year on a 997.2 is gonna make it pretty tough to sell down the road. Once these cars go over 75k they get a little tougher to sell. Once they're over 100k they're pretty dang hard to sell.

Overall, if you can afford it, and the maintenance involved, and the maintenance doesn't frustrate you, and you're not worried about trying to sell a high mileage 911, then 997.2 will be the most fun DD you'll ever own!! I drive mine 3-5 days week, mostly just around town, and it's the best thing I have going in life, haha!!!

Jartin

Here is the language from Porsche about their CPO Program:

Current model year vehicles and those of thirteen previous model years from the original in-service date with less than 124,000 miles are eligible for the Porsche Approved Certified Pre-Owned Program

https://nationalpreownedporsche.com/approved/

So, you can go down to a 2007 with a CPO warranty.

Doug H

Yep, I have seen a few 997.1s CPOed recently. Speaks volumes about Porsche 911 durability.

Iceter

I use my 997.2 as a daily driver. I put 10-12k miles per year on it.

IMO, it’s perfectly comfortable. Your issues will be: serious depreciation and tires.

if you’re willing and able to do your own brake jobs and tire changes, you will drastically reduce the operating cost.

Personally, if I was just piling on highway miles, if buy a cheaper, more luxurious car and keep the Porsche at home just for fun drives.

Doug H

Why soend your livfecdriving around in a boring car.

997.2s are pretty liquid at 80k or so miles. My wife purchased one with 52,000, we put 24,000 on it in 18 months and sold it for $$4k less than what we paid for it in 2 days! It actually seems like the lower priced high mileage are more liquid than the garage queens.

front tires will last a while. Rears depends on camber and dial out sone of the tie if really worried about tire cost.

Wayne Smith

2010 C4S PDK ... Acquired stewardship 5 years ago with 35K miles. Now at 129K miles. 30K miles the first year with annual mileage gradually drifting down as I wean the company from me. Note: I never get tired of driving it.


Maintenance ...
Replaced brakes twice in front and once in rear (last front and rear was just a few thousand miles ago).

Replaced front strut top mounts (an AWD thing due to mounting angle) a few thousand miles ago.

Oil changes every 5K miles. Mobil One 0-40 with no fills in between changes (7.5 quarts out, 7.5 quarts in every time).

Rear tires every 25K miles. Front tires every 40K miles.

On second battery.

Still original suspension, motor mounts, water pump.

Windshield wipers twice.

Two PDK oil changes.

Two AWD controller oil changes.

Grease boot on left front axle twice (chip seal damage in Idaho the first time and the second time was due to poor workmanship on the first replacement).

Gear oil change one time.

Flush brake fluid twice.

Front right diff seal one time.

Air filters three times.

Spark plugs twice.

Cabin filter three times.


Cost of operation ...
Mostly DIY.

Not including gas (25 to 30 mpg commuting) is under 14 cents a mile.


Comfort ...
I've taken several long trips (4,000 miles in six days for instance). On those days I find myself looking for a side excursion at the end of the day so I don't have to stop driving.


Summary ...
This is the most reliable car I've ever owned and I've owned many. IMHO it seems Porsche "over engineered" the 997.2. It is pretty much bullet proof (as long as you warm it up properly ... And it seems mostly even if you don't).

Jartin

Thank you Doug and Snap for your confidence.

I'm coming from a GTI, so I'm hoping the 997 will be everything my mk7.5 DSG GTI is, only better. One reason I'm leaning towards a 997.2 rather than a 991.1, even though they're close in price, is for the 997s DIY friendliness. The cost of tires and the heavy depreciation passed 75k miles were two of the things I was worried about, but I'll do more research on the cost of those.

Are there any engine out services that need to be completed?

TheBruce

Ive put 45k miles on my 2006. Best DD ever.

Jartin

Wayne,

Thank you for breaking down the maintenance you've completed. According to my calculations the cost per year for you is approximately $2.6k, which seems like a hell of a deal.

It sounds like as long as there's fuel in the tank, the car is comfortable enough to not need to stop.

Icter,

I have also been looking at C43s or S4s, but the 997 just seems like the better car Better reliability, depreciation costs, performance, fuel economy, and the downsides seems to be less storage and less technology. I would like adaptive cruise control, but I'd rather have an excellent driving experience.

sandwedge

Sums it up and I agree with all previous assessments. On my third 997 now and here's what's "broken" so far:

2006 C4S: DD and put 43,000 miles on it. Nothing except brakes and tires and the frunk/engine compartment switch (about $200 as I recall it).

2009 C4S: PDK failed. Expensive but covered by extended warranty. Water pump failed too. Also covered by warranty. Put 41,000 miles on that as a DD so of course brakes and tires as well.

2011 GTS: Currently at 63,000 miles as a DD. One coil replaced (warranty covered). Front and rear brakes replaced along with tires a number of times. Just like the the previous two, it's lowered which reduces the miles you get out of the tires. Been pretty consistent between the three. 10,000 to 12,000 on the rears and about twice that for the fronts. Some guys get a lot more than that even with lowered cars. I don't know how they do it but somehow they do.

Very reliable and comfortable car unless you want something really plush which it will never be. Even with lowering springs I never thought of it as uncomfortable in any way. Florida roads are generally very good though so where you drive probably has to be entered into the equation.

Doug H

I also get about 10,000 to 12,000 miles out of rears and twice that for the fronts.

As far as reliability, I put 68,000 miles on a new 2007 997.1 twin turbo and 30,000 miles on a new 2011 997.2 twin turbo without any maintenance issues. I put between 20k and 50k on 3 996tts I purchased new and only had instrument cluster causing tail not to deploy on one.

The high pressure fuel pump is suspect on the 997.2s, but Porsche covered my wife's on her 997.2 NA through goodwill. That was the only 997.2 I purchased used except for my current GTS and we had zero problems with it except for the high pressure fuel pump and the sport button switch going out.

snaphappy

Also do you live in a cold climate? If yes, you’ll want to warm up the car properly, change your oil much more frequently, and always send your oil off to a lab. Probably worth doing in a warm climate too, haha, but cold climates require a little more thoughtfulness.

I’m so afraid of bore scoring I wouldn’t buy a 997.1 from a cold climate, or maybe even any climate. You’ll probably be ok, but I have bad luck.

Engine out services on a 997.2 are pretty uncommon.