VS Forged wheels? And Seller?
10-24-2019, 12:38 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
Golly, back in the day, I had one of those split bumper Camaros, SS, 4-bolt main, 12-bolt rear-end. Black - just like yours. I put Konis on it and a sway bar kit and spring lowering kit from a renowned road racer (can't remember the name). And WS6 steering gear ready to go in. The ravages of NYS salt-on-the-roads just took its toll. Loved that car. Yours is a beauty.
But, back to the topic at hand, I too am in the market for forged wheels for my 7.2. Does see track use, want a quality forged, I'm down to OZ, BBS, Forgeline. The BBS's have a less expensive one on Tire Rack, but I do not think they are forged (maybe cold rolled?) Can someone chime in?
10-24-2019, 01:21 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Sure they can.
They just make very little money doing so. Their designs will be basic, have little machining time and come in standard finishes.
Do you want basic, under engineered lack luster wheels even if they are FORGED?
If you want the absolute highest quality/design/weight you want a net forged wheel. Very few wheels are in fact done so, because it requires an extremely heavy press that actually shapes the aluminum close to the final shape of the wheel, so that the grain (direction) of the metal is actually aligned with the shape of the wheel. Then some final milling is done. This is where companies like BBS, Volk, Work and OZ are differentiated with large capital investment into factories that do this.
The difference with almost everything from the US is that it's generally milled out of a donut shaped forging. This on its own is not bad, but the grain of the metal here is based on that donut shape, not the shape of the final design. Metal is removed from here.
The wheel industry is largely optics and marketing, with a few players that consistently put out quality parts.
They just make very little money doing so. Their designs will be basic, have little machining time and come in standard finishes.
Do you want basic, under engineered lack luster wheels even if they are FORGED?
If you want the absolute highest quality/design/weight you want a net forged wheel. Very few wheels are in fact done so, because it requires an extremely heavy press that actually shapes the aluminum close to the final shape of the wheel, so that the grain (direction) of the metal is actually aligned with the shape of the wheel. Then some final milling is done. This is where companies like BBS, Volk, Work and OZ are differentiated with large capital investment into factories that do this.
The difference with almost everything from the US is that it's generally milled out of a donut shaped forging. This on its own is not bad, but the grain of the metal here is based on that donut shape, not the shape of the final design. Metal is removed from here.
The wheel industry is largely optics and marketing, with a few players that consistently put out quality parts.
I would add Forgeline, Champion and HRE to that list. Based on general reputation, ownership and feedback from friends and associates.
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WheelsB (10-24-2019)
10-24-2019, 01:30 AM
#34
Nordschleife Master
From the Titan7 brand, who's in this same class of wheel - forged but not top brand - I had to extrapolate weights from their chart (they have the fitment but not the weight listing on the chart yet) - approximately 20 fronts, 22 rears.
I seems that the Apex website doesn't have the Porsche 19 inch fitment I'm looking for.
I seems that the Apex website doesn't have the Porsche 19 inch fitment I'm looking for.
About as light as they get. Right on par with my Forgelines that cost three times as much. Wonder what the difference is.
10-24-2019, 02:25 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
Forgeline, HRE and Champion as of recently have relatively small operations that take forged blanks and mill designs out of them. Champion most recently handed off manufacturing to Vossen out of FL.
What I'm talking about with BBS, Volk, etc. are what are much more similar to foundries than machine shops alone.
Watch this and marvel at the metal moving like PlayDoh:
That level of automation and process is not seen at any of the popular brands stateside, period. I stress - this does not make them bad, but different.
10-24-2019, 03:03 AM
#36
Nordschleife Master
Based on my qualification, I would disagree actually.
Forgeline, HRE and Champion as of recently have relatively small operations that take forged blanks and mill designs out of them. Champion most recently handed off manufacturing to Vossen out of FL.
What I'm talking about with BBS, Volk, etc. are what are much more similar to foundries than machine shops alone.
Watch this and marvel at the metal moving like PlayDoh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OoMLQDzmE
That level of automation and process is not seen at any of the popular brands stateside, period. I stress - this does not make them bad, but different.
Forgeline, HRE and Champion as of recently have relatively small operations that take forged blanks and mill designs out of them. Champion most recently handed off manufacturing to Vossen out of FL.
What I'm talking about with BBS, Volk, etc. are what are much more similar to foundries than machine shops alone.
Watch this and marvel at the metal moving like PlayDoh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OoMLQDzmE
That level of automation and process is not seen at any of the popular brands stateside, period. I stress - this does not make them bad, but different.
Great video. More work done by hand with hand tools than I expected. Thanks for posting. And you obviously know the wheel industry so I respect all your assessments. Still wonder how VS can make quality 20 lb forged wheels for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of the more known brands. Unless the more known brands have cut back on quality but kept the pricing the same.....
10-24-2019, 08:34 AM
#37
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
I would definitely include Forgeline. I think they and BBS provide wheels to more factor Motorsports teams than anyone else.
10-24-2019, 12:54 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Great video. More work done by hand with hand tools than I expected. Thanks for posting. And you obviously know the wheel industry so I respect all your assessments. Still wonder how VS can make quality 20 lb forged wheels for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of the more known brands. Unless the more known brands have cut back on quality but kept the pricing the same.....
I could design you an 18lb rear wheel for a 997 in 30 minutes and send it over for machining. Does not mean you’d want to run it on the car...
It’s a long combination of factors that attribute to a “quality” wheel - but weight cannot be looked at in isolation.
10-24-2019, 01:49 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
A simple design, not my first choice in overall looks - but the handling difference is worth it. Already "cab" heavy, I went for shaving a few pounds of unsprung weight.
10-24-2019, 01:52 PM
#41
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Follow us on YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/WheelsBoutique
Largest Dealer In The World for HRE Wheels, ANRKY Wheels, Vorsteiner Wheels & Aero, Akrapovic Exhaust, & iPE Exhaust
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Brembo / Rotiform / KW / H&R / Novitec / Brabus / Mansory and tons more...
10-24-2019, 07:08 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
More availability options open up if I were to consider 18 inch wheels compared to the 19s.
What are the pros and cons regarding running 18s (full-time) in the daily driver, occasional autocross/DE use case?
What are the pros and cons regarding running 18s (full-time) in the daily driver, occasional autocross/DE use case?
10-25-2019, 01:05 AM
#43
Nordschleife Master
Simple. Cheaper forgings, less complex designs, less optimized for durability, basic finishes, lesser engineering, lesser product support, less marketing - each one of those steps adds an element to cost.
I could design you an 18lb rear wheel for a 997 in 30 minutes and send it over for machining. Does not mean you’d want to run it on the car...
It’s a long combination of factors that attribute to a “quality” wheel - but weight cannot be looked at in isolation.
I could design you an 18lb rear wheel for a 997 in 30 minutes and send it over for machining. Does not mean you’d want to run it on the car...
It’s a long combination of factors that attribute to a “quality” wheel - but weight cannot be looked at in isolation.
Sounds simple enough but to a novice on wheel design like me it also sounds like a lot of compromises and even shortcuts. So would you say that the VS wheels or any other forged wheels cutting costs as you describe can be compared to the higher priced forged wheels in terms of overall quality, durability, strength and finish?