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I've considered it but it's really not my copper tea.
Could this be the result of the mileage per oil change?
What mileage, a bit under 6k miles per oil change? I doubt it. How is that car driven? Short drives, long drives? Proper warm up or full throttle cold starts?
Yeah, I’m more concerned that it does more harm than good though, as I’ve read the solid lubricants, if left for a while (eg. if car is not driven much), will separate and fall to bottom of oil pan. My 997 is not a daily driver so may sit a week at a time between drives. Also, how do I know if this additive plays nice with the oil in my car in terms of not clashing with the oil’s own additive package? And why aren’t there people out there who buy brand new 911s and use these additives from the get go instead of waiting till later in the car’s life. I mean I don’t read of any owners in the 992 or 991 forum talking about Ceratec I don’t think.
That is not correct. MoS2/Ceratec will coat moving parts and stay there a long while. And what if all the moly drops to the pan's floor? Once you start the engine all that would be swirled back into the oil flow, but no, that is not what happens. And... even if for some strange reason all the moly supposedly deposited on the pan's floor stays there... that would only mean that the oil would just work by itself without that added additive. So no different from not adding the additive in the first place.
That is not correct. MoS2/Ceratec will coat moving parts and stay there a long while. And what if all the moly drops to the pan's floor? Once you start the engine all that would be swirled back into the oil flow, but no, that is not what happens. And... even if for some strange reason all the moly supposedly deposited on the pan's floor stays there... that would only mean that the oil would just work by itself without that added additive. So no different from not adding the additive in the first place.
And yes, I put moly on any new car I buy.
Discussion here on how someone opened oil pan and saw the Ceratec at bottom of oil pan and didn’t unsettle even after start up...
And how do you explain M96 or M97 engines lasting 100k or even 300k plus miles only on Mobil 1? Thus my question- is it really necessary? And given the amazing qualities these additive products claim, and seem to have proven, why don’t car manufacturers recommend putting them into brand new cars to extend the life and reliability of their engines?
What mileage, a bit under 6k miles per oil change? I doubt it. How is that car driven? Short drives, long drives? Proper warm up or full throttle cold starts?
Yeah, I put about 5,9xx miles since my last oil change. It's not daily driven but I try and take it out for a canyon run every other weekend (which is about 200 miles and heavy on the throttle) and sometimes to work on Fridays. My work commute is 19.1 miles/one way and takes about 45 mins with traffic so it depends on if it's a holiday weekend or 9/80 so there is less traffic. Temperatures are pretty constant in Southern California.
My start up and warm up are somewhat proper and don't think I'm doing anything out of the norm. I start it up but don't "drive immediately". I always check the oil prior to starting the engine. I do let it idle for about 10-20 secs as I get situated, get the radio on and toggle between stations, set the air and then put my belt on. I have to slowly back it out at an angle so I won't hit the motos and sometimes have to "Austin Power" it .
I live in a gated community so I drive in 1st/under 3K @ about 20 mph for about a half a mile. Once I get onto the main road, I keep it under 4K until the oil temps have reached 200.
I see some other UOA reports and that's why I mentioned the oil mileage.
And how do you explain M96 or M97 engines lasting 100k or even 300k plus miles only on Mobil 1? Thus my question- is it really necessary? And given the amazing qualities these additive products claim, and seem to have proven, why don’t car manufacturers recommend putting them into brand new cars to extend the life and reliability of their engines?
I had two Boxster engines blow. Should I blame...what...Mobil 1? Lack of moly?
I had two Boxster engines blow. Should I blame...what...Mobil 1? Lack of moly?
Peace
Bruce in Philly
What were the failures traced to? IMS bearings or some other parts? Maybe, but how do we know? Many more people use M1 and don’t add Moly but didn’t have their engines blow either, right?
Yeah, I put about 5,9xx miles since my last oil change. It's not daily driven but I try and take it out for a canyon run every other weekend (which is about 200 miles and heavy on the throttle) and sometimes to work on Fridays. My work commute is 19.1 miles/one way and takes about 45 mins with traffic so it depends on if it's a holiday weekend or 9/80 so there is less traffic. Temperatures are pretty constant in Southern California.
My start up and warm up are somewhat proper and don't think I'm doing anything out of the norm. I start it up but don't "drive immediately". I always check the oil prior to starting the engine. I do let it idle for about 10-20 secs as I get situated, get the radio on and toggle between stations, set the air and then put my belt on. I have to slowly back it out at an angle so I won't hit the motos and sometimes have to "Austin Power" it .
I live in a gated community so I drive in 1st/under 3K @ about 20 mph for about a half a mile. Once I get onto the main road, I keep it under 4K until the oil temps have reached 200.
I see some other UOA reports and that's why I mentioned the oil mileage.
And how do you explain M96 or M97 engines lasting 100k or even 300k plus miles only on Mobil 1? Thus my question- is it really necessary? And given the amazing qualities these additive products claim, and seem to have proven, why don’t car manufacturers recommend putting them into brand new cars to extend the life and reliability of their engines?
Adding moly may not be a necessity, but some of us think that coating parts with a solid lubricant is a good thing, these days of reduced ZDDP and ethanol-laced gas, and nothing bad comes out of that. Feel free to do what you think is appropriate in your case, of course.
I've considered it but it's really not my copper tea.
Could this be the result of the mileage per oil change?
Because your TBN is high and your Flashpoint is high, the oil is actually holding up at the 6,000 mile interval, but it doesn't have enough Zinc, Phosphorous, or Moly to prevent the wear that is contributing to the high Iron and Copper numbers. I never like to see double digit wear metals in my UOA.
I'd switch to a different oil that has a better anti-wear package like DT40.
Last edited by Petza914; Oct 19, 2019 at 01:27 PM.
Adding moly may not be a necessity, but some of us think that coating parts with a solid lubricant is a good thing, these days of reduced ZDDP and ethanol-laced gas, and nothing bad comes out of that. Feel free to do what you think is appropriate in your case, of course.
Fair enough. I’ve thrown some in already in my daily driver. I guess if I find over time that I like it, I’ll try it in the 997 too I’m sure.
To me, it looks more like a less than great oil. Because yiur TBN is high and your Flashpoint is high, the oil is actually holding up at the 6,000 mile interval, but it doesn't have enough Zinc, Phosphorous, or Moly to prevent the bear. G wear that is contributing to the high Iron and Copper numbers. I never like to see double digit wear metals in my UOA.
I'd switch to a different oil that has a better anti-wear package like DT40.
Actually, in looking at this further, I'm changing my position a little bit. Motul xcess should have more Zinc and Phosphorous than what you're seeing in the UOA. Below is the UOA history on my wife's C2S and the columns are labelled for each oil. See the Motul xcess columns have over 1,000 ppm of both of those. In your UOA one is under 900 and the other under 1,000. This means the anti-wear additive package is breaking down at the mileage you're using for your change interval. If you're going to stay with the Motul, do your next change closer to 4,000 miles and see what the ZDDP and metal wear numbers look like. If they're really good, you can try going to 5,000 for the one after that until you find a good interval where the additive package is holding up, but IMO, 6,000 miles was too long on this one even though the TBN, viscosity, and flashpoint numbers still looked good.
Also, see how much higher DT40 is in Zinc & Phosphorous and in the Moly the 2nd time it was used (sometimes takes one or more oil changes before you start seeing consistent results), which is also why a single UOA like you've posted may not tell the whole story. However you can't get these levels of Zinc & Phosphorous in an A40 approved oil because automakers don't want to be on the hook for replacement of expensive catalytic converters and though high ZDDP help protect the guts of the engine, can be tougher on the cats. I'll sacrifice a little life from $1,500 high performance cats over a $25,000 engine build any day of the week.
Replenishing the stock for upcoming oil changes. Engine goodness for a modern engine (Ceratec) and a classic (MoS2):
Why use this stuff over Driven DT40? I'm planning on switching to Driven because it has this stuff built in...everything in one bottle...what are you thoughts?
Why use this stuff over Driven DT40? I'm planning on switching to Driven because it has this stuff built in...everything in one bottle...what are you thoughts?
German car, German oil company, great reviews, seems to work. Great experience with LM products. Personal choice.
You seem to do things right. Keep an eye on it, and change oil more often, (maybe 3k miles) and keep doing UOA to check trends.
Originally Posted by Petza914
Actually, in looking at this further, I'm changing my position a little bit. Motul xcess should have more Zinc and Phosphorous than what you're seeing in the UOA. Below is the UOA history on my wife's C2S and the columns are labelled for each oil. See the Motul xcess columns have over 1,000 ppm of both of those. In your UOA one is under 900 and the other under 1,000. This means the anti-wear additive package is breaking down at the mileage you're using for your change interval. If you're going to stay with the Motul, do your next change closer to 4,000 miles and see what the ZDDP and metal wear numbers look like. If they're really good, you can try going to 5,000 for the one after that until you find a good interval where the additive package is holding up, but IMO, 6,000 miles was too long on this one even though the TBN, viscosity, and flashpoint numbers still looked good.
Also, see how much higher DT40 is in Zinc & Phosphorous and in the Moly the 2nd time it was used (sometimes takes one or more oil changes before you start seeing consistent results), which is also why a single UOA like you've posted may not tell the whole story. However you can't get these levels of Zinc & Phosphorous in an A40 approved oil because automakers don't want to be on the hook for replacement of expensive catalytic converters and though high ZDDP help protect the guts of the engine, can be tougher on the cats. I'll sacrifice a little life from $1,500 high performance cats over a $25,000 engine build any day of the week.
Thanks for your feedback guys. I’ll cut the oil change duration to 4,000 miles and see how the UOA is before switching oils.
