black997er

It actually appears that that the 9A1 is easier to scope from the sump after doing 10-15 more minutes of work. Consider the following:

1. Here’s a sump-side view of the 9A1 block from Flat Six Innovation’s Facebook page. Note the access to all 6 cylinders when the oil pump is not installed:



2. Now notice what is occluding this view with the oil pump and top pan installed:



3. Finally, @prairiedawg circled here are the bots to take off to get direct access to the front 3 cylinders (3,6,2 from the front side of the car) and indirect access to the next 3 (behind the oil pump: 5,1,4 from the front side of the car). I would not try to remove the oil pump!



Hope that helps someone that comes here looking for an answer! Also happy to be corrected if I missed anything or am misguiding people. I’ll be attempting this over the weekend so I’ll know what’s the way to do it by Monday next week.

zamorskii

What seller in their right mind would allow drooping an oil pan during a PPI? These cars sell in minutes here and other places, if priced right.

I would also not discount the length of ownership, as one of the signs of potentially undisclosed issues. Sorry, but I am always VERY skeptical of stories when somebody owns a car for 3-4 or 9 months and then suddenly decides to sell because they need more garage space. Sounds like a ticking bomb to me.

Petza914

+1

If I ever did decide to sell one of my 997s (very unlikely), no way I'm letting a prospective buyer take my leak-free oil pan anywhere to have it removed, so the shop can put it back together without the same 24 hours of sealant curing time I used when I installed it, and maybe get the bolt torque right, so that I then have a car that now has an oil pan leak. If they want to pull the filter, cut it open, and give me $15 to install a new filter, I'd be OK with that, but you're not pulling my pan or for that matter my spark plugs to look for something I know isn't there. I'd just sell it to the next guy that comes along.

zamorskii

At a minimum I would ask for a 5% non-refundable deposit, if anybody wanted to dig that deep. Folks don't mind paying that much to BAT to buy sight-unseen, so why should your private transaction be any different if it involves deep analysis.

black997er

997.2’s don’t require any sealant because they have a rubber gasket. You might need to replace that if you’re paranoid (I would!) but that doesn’t need a 24 hour cure.

G.I.G.

Couldn't agree more. Whenever I see these posts telling prospective buyers to drop the oil pan and a host of other invasive PPI services, I just shake my head. That might work if you're buying from a dealer, but no sane private seller would allow their car to be dissected by a shop they're not familiar with only for a potential buyer to say "thanks, but no thanks". Now if they were to take it to my shop, I would possibly consider it. But like @zamorskii said, clean, well-cared for 997's don't last long.

I also have a theory regarding the difference between bore "scoring", and "streaking" often seen in bore scope shots taken from the spark plug side of the cylinder, but I'll keep those thoughts to myself....

black997er

@G.I.G. @zamorskii You can of course do (or not do) what you want with your cars! I read this post as asking for information on how to reliably scope the cylinders from the bottom pan ... and I added some hypotheses for how to do it for those like me that came here for information and not opinions on the process. One potential use case you’re not considering is that of an owner that would like to verify the health of their engine.

Anyway, for those after information, hypothesis in #46 above is correct. I just dropped the pan on my 997.2 and removed the metal pipe (oil pressure pipe) and black plastic bits (sump-side Air/Oil Separator). This is sufficient for giving easy access to all but cylinder 1 at TDC. As Jake Raby says, snaking a camera this way is not easy and that’s why you have to find a diligent mechanic if you don’t have the patience. Anyway, some pics from my experience. I had a beautiful sump (no debris, just some sludge from carbon that I cleaned up). Also took videos of all cylinders ... will post my beautiful cylinder #1 video as that was the clearest.








PS: car is now back together and running beautifully after an oil change and general TLC. Work on your own car, part of the joy of ownership!

Flat6 Innovations

Great news on the cylinder condition.
Yes, the 9a1 is much easier to scope than the M9X engine. With the oil pump removed direct access is very simple. You can also inspect the oil pump drive sprocket, it's attachment bolt, and the drive chain for the oil pump. We find a lot of the oil pump drives elliptical, with runout, so taking this opportunity to check that "while you are in there" is a positive.

All my video focus is on finishing the 12 hours of edited video for my M9X engine assembly video series, until that is done, and distributed, I won't be adding any more major videos to Rennvision. When I do, bore scoping a 9a1 is a high priority.

FYI- I won't perform a PPI unless its "engine invasive".

black997er

Thank you! I gleaned some tidbits from your old video with Charles and PCA director on the black 996. As for inspecting the oil pump drive, I will look into that at my next oil change in 6 months ... when I go to the DIY shop, my better half just knows it’s going to be a whole day so I make the most of it, hehe. Please continue posting your videos to Rennvision, it’s great to have high quality information from a highly credible source. Looking fwd to your 9A1 series, I’ll buy it if I need to!

HenryPcar

Exactly, no self-respecting owner will go for it. I once allow my car going through PPI and the buyer wants to check bore-scoring by removing the spark plugs and coil. The shop had to put the car on lift, removed the rear wheel and muffler, heat shields, then the coil and spark plugs. The inspection passed however the buyer backed out of it. Took my car home and on the way there was a constant rattling on the bottom. I had to put my 997 on stands at the garage to find the culprit. The source of the problem were a few. Firstly after taking off the mufflers to gain access, the shop didn't align the muffler pipes properly when they put it back. In fact the clamps were loose. Also, a couple of the undercover fasteners were missing and causing the undercover to rattle as well. If the shop wasn't 30 minutes away I would have gone back to give them my piece of mind for such sloppy work.

I doubt any owners will allow the shop to drop the oil pan for a ppi inspection. Its like asking a woman to drop their pants and then poke around to see if she is a virgin before any marriage (They still do that in some cultures).

black997er

As promised, here’s a video of my cylinder #1 as seen from the sump side: .

Excuse the jerking motion, rookie hour here. Also didn’t have that cylinder all the way up to TDC but it was high enough for a good view. The other cylinders looked just as good but I either didn’t get video or it wasn’t clear enough.

This is the camera I used: . Super cost effective tool that’s super easy to set up. Also supports higher resolution video, I didn’t learn about that till I got to post processing the video, so be sure to check camera settings before diving right in.

Colin Huelin

I recently purchased an "Approved" Gen 2 997 Carerra 4S Convertible (2009) in the UK with 34K miles and a two year Porsche Warranty. On the car's maiden trip to see the Milli Miglia in Italy, I was shocked to experience exactly the same problem - the oil warning light came on. The Porsche dealership in the UK where I purchased the car referred me to the local dealership in Jersey. I have been requested to conduct two 600 mile road tests. The first in Jersey was all short stop/start distances of no more than 6 miles with an average max speed of 30 mph. I pointed out that this did not simulate motorway driving. The oil gauge fell by 2 bars (0.8L) after 438 miles to the minimum bar so after 600 miles I estimated the consumption was 1.1 litres. The dealership advised me that the car had consumed 0.8 L of oil which was less than 1 Litre which they claimed was the limit below which they are not required to carry out any further investigation. I questioned them on the measurements which had not been recorded on their job sheet before the test and a second 600 mile road test was conducted - this time from Jersey to Leeds and back on motorways. After the dealership had filled the Mobil One oil with 7.3 Litres, the gauge was showing ABOVE the top bar but they advised me to carry out the test. The gauge was showing AT the top third bar on completing the test. The dealership confirmed that 6.1 litres of oil was drained - a staggering 1.2 Litres of oil in 600 miles!!.And now they are telling me that they are not required to investigate the matter further as the consumption is within the tollerance of 1.5 litres. I have also had the previous oil filter analysed by a specialist company in the UK who have reported that 6 particles of non-ferrous aluminium were visible in the filter. The Porsche dealership have advised me that this is nothing to worry about. Naturally I am so worried about this and reading your experience with Porsche is exactly what I would have expected from a customer experience perspective. Did they apply any pre-conditions before agreeing to carry out the thorough investigation?

FlatsixS

well Petza is talking from his particular case, him is an 997.1… so his point is valid IMO.