Request for advice on a 997.1 purchase
11-29-2018, 11:43 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Request for advice on a 997.1 purchase
Hello Rennlist, I'm in the market for a 997. I just had a PPI performed for a 997.1 and was told that the car had over revs in the 4 and 5 range. Also, there is oil seepage by the transmission bell housing and rear main seal. I'm ok with the other findings but these were a concern for me. Would you recommend passing on this car? For reference, this is a 2006 C2S with 60k miles going for an asking price of $40k.
Thanks,
Joe
Thanks,
Joe
11-30-2018, 12:31 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Hey Joe, welcome!
The RMS leak doesn't concern me much (as long as its confirmed to be the RMS). At 60k miles you have a clutch job coming up so can easily replace the RMS with it. Its like a $20 part and maybe adds ~1hr of work.
The overrevs are concerning. I think 3-4 were previously considered "safe" by Porsche but 5-6 would make the car ineligible for an extended warranty. Im not sure the exact breakpoints so will let some of the other guys chime in. But I think the biggest thing is "when" did those overruns occur. The more recent they were, the higher the risk.
Personally I would walk and find another. The price is right for those miles, but there will be more.
Keep us posted and welcome to the community. You will love the car and happy to share some of the other tips and maintenance items ive learned along the way.
The RMS leak doesn't concern me much (as long as its confirmed to be the RMS). At 60k miles you have a clutch job coming up so can easily replace the RMS with it. Its like a $20 part and maybe adds ~1hr of work.
The overrevs are concerning. I think 3-4 were previously considered "safe" by Porsche but 5-6 would make the car ineligible for an extended warranty. Im not sure the exact breakpoints so will let some of the other guys chime in. But I think the biggest thing is "when" did those overruns occur. The more recent they were, the higher the risk.
Personally I would walk and find another. The price is right for those miles, but there will be more.
Keep us posted and welcome to the community. You will love the car and happy to share some of the other tips and maintenance items ive learned along the way.
11-30-2018, 01:14 AM
#3
Depending on how many ignitions in range 5 and when it was is really what you are after. If it was a decent amount of time and recently I would pass.
A car that has been tracked will definitely have a high count of 1,2, even range 3. Range 4 could also be cause by tracking due to an overly aggressive downshift, now rage 5-6 is likely a misshift.
The car I purchased was tracked and from a friend so I had a good idea how it was driven and feel comfortable he had not misshifted. That said it had 54 range 4 ignitions with range 4 last recorded 70hrs prior. Doing the math that is roughly 2,100 miles prior. I can line that up to a track event that we both attended together, not one time did he mention a misshift, my guess is he maybe just downshifted a bit early. The car went 2,100 miles and was still fine so I didn’t have much concern. Now it did have 1 range 5 recorded but it was only a single ignition and it was 44k miles earlier again no concern.
A car that has been tracked will definitely have a high count of 1,2, even range 3. Range 4 could also be cause by tracking due to an overly aggressive downshift, now rage 5-6 is likely a misshift.
The car I purchased was tracked and from a friend so I had a good idea how it was driven and feel comfortable he had not misshifted. That said it had 54 range 4 ignitions with range 4 last recorded 70hrs prior. Doing the math that is roughly 2,100 miles prior. I can line that up to a track event that we both attended together, not one time did he mention a misshift, my guess is he maybe just downshifted a bit early. The car went 2,100 miles and was still fine so I didn’t have much concern. Now it did have 1 range 5 recorded but it was only a single ignition and it was 44k miles earlier again no concern.
11-30-2018, 01:54 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
TheBruce and bgoetz, thank you for the input. I'll get more info regarding the range 5 overrev tomorrow, but I'm starting to lean towards passing on this car. It's a shame because the spec and appearance of this one really caught my eye.
11-30-2018, 11:54 AM
#5
Hello Rennlist, I'm in the market for a 997. I just had a PPI performed for a 997.1 and was told that the car had over revs in the 4 and 5 range. Also, there is oil seepage by the transmission bell housing and rear main seal. I'm ok with the other findings but these were a concern for me. Would you recommend passing on this car? For reference, this is a 2006 C2S with 60k miles going for an asking price of $40k.
Thanks,
Joe
Thanks,
Joe
It would be great if these cars are selling this strong. My immediate reaction was that this car is overpriced. But it really depends on many factors.
I would pass on the car, but you can also use the leaks in your negotiation which do not seem major and could be typical for this age and miles.
11-30-2018, 01:35 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
That is a ridiculous price for that car - You need to grind $5K off of it or look for something else - RMS leak at Bell Housing is not a concern as it happens over time
As far as over revs, someone already chimed in.
As far as over revs, someone already chimed in.
11-30-2018, 03:04 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
How long ago and how many ignitions in category 5 needs to be understood. A failure I heard usually occurs within the first 50-100 hours of the overrev.
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11-30-2018, 03:45 PM
#8
This. Get your hands on the report itself. I've seen many overrev reports with a single count in each of the upper ranges, clearly a glitch. Others have very few in say range 4, less than 10 or so, and happened many many hours ago. I wouldn't pass on a car simply because a "bad" number showed up on the report. I would want to see those numbers in context - how many and how long ago. Many counts and/or not so long ago are warnings or even deal breakers. Few and very long ago I might just overlook it while using that info as a bargaining chip. All of this is viewable on the overrev report itself.
11-30-2018, 06:16 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
I remember when I was looking for my 997.2 and I found one that had some overrevs in category 6. It was like 100ish ignitions, but it was over 300 hours ago when I looked at the car. I did not end up getting that one, but with that many hours since the overrev it did not concern me much.
12-01-2018, 02:12 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the responses! I received the DME report today:
Operating hours counter: 1884.100h
NMax_1: 23799 - 1760.500h
NMax_2: 4541 - 1738.500h
NMax_3: 1591 - 1541.300h
NMax_4: 641 - 1540.500h
NMax_5: 168 - 1525.200h
NMax_6: 0 - 0.000h
Though not ideal, the indication that the range 5 overrev occurred over 350 operating hours ago is encouraging.
This particular car is spec'd almost perfect for me which is why it is a bit difficult for me to walk away from it. However, since we are going into winter here in the North East, the timing isn't ideal anyway. I'm planning to use this car as my daily driver (30k miles / year) - I've been missing the 911 feel and Porsche family ever since I traded in my 991 C2S for a more practical Giulia Quadrifoglio (I have 2 young kids) 3 months ago. I'm keeping the Giulia Quadrifoglio (really fun car - I recommend anyone looking for a fun sedan to consider it) but will be using the 997 on any opportunity I can get to drive solo (hence daily driver). The 997 is my favorite body style of the water cooled 911s. The 991 was awesome to drive, but even as an owner of one, I still preferred the 997.
Operating hours counter: 1884.100h
NMax_1: 23799 - 1760.500h
NMax_2: 4541 - 1738.500h
NMax_3: 1591 - 1541.300h
NMax_4: 641 - 1540.500h
NMax_5: 168 - 1525.200h
NMax_6: 0 - 0.000h
Though not ideal, the indication that the range 5 overrev occurred over 350 operating hours ago is encouraging.
This particular car is spec'd almost perfect for me which is why it is a bit difficult for me to walk away from it. However, since we are going into winter here in the North East, the timing isn't ideal anyway. I'm planning to use this car as my daily driver (30k miles / year) - I've been missing the 911 feel and Porsche family ever since I traded in my 991 C2S for a more practical Giulia Quadrifoglio (I have 2 young kids) 3 months ago. I'm keeping the Giulia Quadrifoglio (really fun car - I recommend anyone looking for a fun sedan to consider it) but will be using the 997 on any opportunity I can get to drive solo (hence daily driver). The 997 is my favorite body style of the water cooled 911s. The 991 was awesome to drive, but even as an owner of one, I still preferred the 997.
12-01-2018, 02:34 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Thanks for the responses! I received the DME report today:
Operating hours counter: 1884.100h
NMax_1: 23799 - 1760.500h
NMax_2: 4541 - 1738.500h
NMax_3: 1591 - 1541.300h
NMax_4: 641 - 1540.500h
NMax_5: 168 - 1525.200h
NMax_6: 0 - 0.000h
Though not ideal, the indication that the range 5 overrev occurred over 350 operating hours ago is encouraging.
This particular car is spec'd almost perfect for me which is why it is a bit difficult for me to walk away from it. However, since we are going into winter here in the North East, the timing isn't ideal anyway. I'm planning to use this car as my daily driver (30k miles / year) - I've been missing the 911 feel and Porsche family ever since I traded in my 991 C2S for a more practical Giulia Quadrifoglio (I have 2 young kids) 3 months ago. I'm keeping the Giulia Quadrifoglio (really fun car - I recommend anyone looking for a fun sedan to consider it) but will be using the 997 on any opportunity I can get to drive solo (hence daily driver). The 997 is my favorite body style of the water cooled 911s. The 991 was awesome to drive, but even as an owner of one, I still preferred the 997.
Operating hours counter: 1884.100h
NMax_1: 23799 - 1760.500h
NMax_2: 4541 - 1738.500h
NMax_3: 1591 - 1541.300h
NMax_4: 641 - 1540.500h
NMax_5: 168 - 1525.200h
NMax_6: 0 - 0.000h
Though not ideal, the indication that the range 5 overrev occurred over 350 operating hours ago is encouraging.
This particular car is spec'd almost perfect for me which is why it is a bit difficult for me to walk away from it. However, since we are going into winter here in the North East, the timing isn't ideal anyway. I'm planning to use this car as my daily driver (30k miles / year) - I've been missing the 911 feel and Porsche family ever since I traded in my 991 C2S for a more practical Giulia Quadrifoglio (I have 2 young kids) 3 months ago. I'm keeping the Giulia Quadrifoglio (really fun car - I recommend anyone looking for a fun sedan to consider it) but will be using the 997 on any opportunity I can get to drive solo (hence daily driver). The 997 is my favorite body style of the water cooled 911s. The 991 was awesome to drive, but even as an owner of one, I still preferred the 997.
And not that CPO coverage is an issue due to its age, but as a reference I don't believe a younger car with that DME report would qualify. I may be wrong but I don't think Porsche will CPO a car with any DME readings of 3 and above.
12-01-2018, 02:35 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
I highly recommend no matter which 997.1 you consider purchasing, have the cylinder walls checked. Cylinder scoring is a common issue with these cars and won't show up on a PPI!
12-01-2018, 09:37 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
For me that report would not stop me from buying the car. Although something in the category 5 is not good it was 350 hours ago. It is probably a mute point this late in the game. Bore scoring is another thing though. You live in cold country and not Texas, (it is hitting 78 here today). .1 cars have a higher tendency for bore scoring in colder climates. Is it rare,yes, but speak to anyone who has had to deal with it and you will feel their pain. For 40k you also are right on the 997.2 range, but it will be a base model. I would say due to the season it is more of a buyers market especially in the North. I would think the price is a bit high considering everything, but only by about 5k. Get a good PPI from an independent with a bore scoring scope and drive it. It will speak to you one way or another. Best of luck.
12-01-2018, 10:09 AM
#14
Something definitely happened 350 hours ago or ~3k miles back. When was the last oil change? If it still has the oil you could pull the filter and check for metal (a couple specs is somewhat normal but more than that is bad news). You could also send a sample to blackstone, bore Scoring or and other issues would likely show up there.
I would agree, this time of year that price is high, it is more reflective of what it would be priced in the spring. I personally wouldn’t pay more than $36k for that car with that report.
I would agree, this time of year that price is high, it is more reflective of what it would be priced in the spring. I personally wouldn’t pay more than $36k for that car with that report.
12-02-2018, 01:06 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the all the great input/information. At this point, I'm leaning towards passing on this particular car and looking for a 997.2. I really appreciate all the help!