Hi Gang!
#31
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Bore scoring and d-chunk on the 3.8s.
#32
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I'm currently doing research on the HPFP issue is more widespread than just Porsche engines. There is no test currently in the ASTM for gasoline lubricity. They are using a modified diesel lubricity test, but because of the volatility of gasoline, the testing isn't very accurate or representative of real world results. The papers I've read more or less state that manufacturers are using current production models as in field tests and adjust while a standard for lubricity is determined and as technology trickles down to help with lubricity related failures such as coatings offered by Oerlikon Balzers, which we use in the IMS Solution.
Long story short, part of this has to do with the poor lubricity in ethanol fuels. What you can do to help with this is to try to use non-ethanol fuels, where available. The next best thing would be to use Top Tier fuels and use regular ethanol fuel system treatments. Driven makes one called Injector Defender and for older cars with carbs, Carb Defender.
Although the elimination of sulfur from diesel fuels led to lubricity issues, the added biomass provided more than ample lubricity. Ethanol is highly corrosive and requires significant dosing of fuels with LE (lubricant enhancers), which lead to intake deposits.
The technology hasn't been perfected yet.
Long story short, part of this has to do with the poor lubricity in ethanol fuels. What you can do to help with this is to try to use non-ethanol fuels, where available. The next best thing would be to use Top Tier fuels and use regular ethanol fuel system treatments. Driven makes one called Injector Defender and for older cars with carbs, Carb Defender.
Although the elimination of sulfur from diesel fuels led to lubricity issues, the added biomass provided more than ample lubricity. Ethanol is highly corrosive and requires significant dosing of fuels with LE (lubricant enhancers), which lead to intake deposits.
The technology hasn't been perfected yet.
#33
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The HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) is a guaranteed failure on the 997.2. It's just going to go. It's not a big deal. Porsche will generally goodwill, and if not, it's only $1k for the part. (Remember to depressurize before attempting install.) It's definitely not a big deal to have fail - more like losing a coil than losing a cylinder. Just swap in new part, ignore the codes the failure set, and you're good as new. Onyxia's HPFP was replaced before she was offered for sale. It's essentially a wear part issue, but one that wears prematurely.
The PDK is second only to the C4GTS center differential. One thing I will tell everyone about the C4GTS is that it is the greatest Porsche 997.2 you can buy in 6 speed form, period. Add some power and it will devour everything. It's that over the top. But if you break the front differential? It's over $10k to replace because it S uses the Turbo S part, not the C4S part, and is non-rebuildable. Same problem out back. Do not even ask about the center differential. If you have to ask what it costs to fix that? You can't afford it. The good thing is that it's very unlikely, even on high mileage examples. But if the center is going, you'll know. Immediately.
When you've been told "the price is 'call Stuttgart,' so only if you REALLY need it," you know things just went off the rails.
The PDK is second only to the C4GTS center differential. One thing I will tell everyone about the C4GTS is that it is the greatest Porsche 997.2 you can buy in 6 speed form, period. Add some power and it will devour everything. It's that over the top. But if you break the front differential? It's over $10k to replace because it S uses the Turbo S part, not the C4S part, and is non-rebuildable. Same problem out back. Do not even ask about the center differential. If you have to ask what it costs to fix that? You can't afford it. The good thing is that it's very unlikely, even on high mileage examples. But if the center is going, you'll know. Immediately.
When you've been told "the price is 'call Stuttgart,' so only if you REALLY need it," you know things just went off the rails.
#34
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
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I'm currently doing research on the HPFP issue is more widespread than just Porsche engines. There is no test currently in the ASTM for gasoline lubricity. They are using a modified diesel lubricity test, but because of the volatility of gasoline, the testing isn't very accurate or representative of real world results. The papers I've read more or less state that manufacturers are using current production models as in field tests and adjust while a standard for lubricity is determined and as technology trickles down to help with lubricity related failures such as coatings offered by Oerlikon Balzers, which we use in the IMS Solution.
Long story short, part of this has to do with the poor lubricity in ethanol fuels. What you can do to help with this is to try to use non-ethanol fuels, where available. The next best thing would be to use Top Tier fuels and use regular ethanol fuel system treatments. Driven makes one called Injector Defender and for older cars with carbs, Carb Defender.
Although the elimination of sulfur from diesel fuels led to lubricity issues, the added biomass provided more than ample lubricity. Ethanol is highly corrosive and requires significant dosing of fuels with LE (lubricant enhancers), which lead to intake deposits.
The technology hasn't been perfected yet.
Long story short, part of this has to do with the poor lubricity in ethanol fuels. What you can do to help with this is to try to use non-ethanol fuels, where available. The next best thing would be to use Top Tier fuels and use regular ethanol fuel system treatments. Driven makes one called Injector Defender and for older cars with carbs, Carb Defender.
Although the elimination of sulfur from diesel fuels led to lubricity issues, the added biomass provided more than ample lubricity. Ethanol is highly corrosive and requires significant dosing of fuels with LE (lubricant enhancers), which lead to intake deposits.
The technology hasn't been perfected yet.
#35
Rennlist Member
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That's part of our "toolbox" of products we use. Lubromoly's Jectron is good stuff too.
#36
Nordschleife Master
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That was not my intention and I apologize if that's how it came across. Just to point out that there's been a lot of opinions posted here linking cold climate cars to more bore scoring events than cars spending their life in the south. I guess the question is: how do you identify cars that have been driven properly in cold temperatures vs. those that have been driven improperly? All I can think is bore scoping prior to buying.
#37
Rennlist Member
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That was not my intention and I apologize if that's how it came across. Just to point out that there's been a lot of opinions posted here linking cold climate cars to more bore scoring events than cars spending their life in the south. I guess the question is: how do you identify cars that have been driven properly in cold temperatures vs. those that have been driven improperly? All I can think is bore scoping prior to buying.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
#38
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https://www.google.com/search?num=100&client=firefox-b-1&ei=beWSW5X8PIfJjwTKxpDADg&q=seafoam+ruined&oq=seafoam+ruined&gs_l=ps y-ab.3..0l2j0i22i30.43768.44851..45153...0.0..0.91.462.6......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i20i263.0aBr0uloZ1g
#39
#40
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Apology not necessary. We are fellow enthusiasts.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
#41
Nordschleife Master
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Apology not necessary. We are fellow enthusiasts.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
Agree completely. Out of the three 997's I've owned, the only 997.1 out of the three ( -06 C4S) was actually the most reliable so far and the only one of the three that never left me stranded. Water pump failed on the -09 C4S so had to call for a flatbed roadside. On the -11 GTS, the HPFP failed close to my house. Close enough where I limped home and another flatbed to the dealer the next morning.
#42
Rennlist Member
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We use Driven products almost exclusively, including Carb and Injector Defender products. Although I should probably do them for frequently in my daily drivers, I try do run a fuel system product at least every 3k miles. On my older cars, I use the Driven ethanol treatment products in every tank.
#43
Drifting
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Apology not necessary. We are fellow enthusiasts.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
There is no sure thing about buying any pre owned Porsche. Plenty of examples of PPIs that overlook obvious flaws. With that said, a PPI is mandatory and scoping for possible bore scoring is a good idea. The problem is that few can really properly interpret the results what they are seeing. I am also a believer in buying from the right seller is as important as buying the right car. A great dealer with a stellar reputation of standing behind their products is an example. A knowledgeable enthusiast private seller is another.
Some of the 997.1 haters are overstating issues, which is within their rights, and causing potential buyers to bypass a great vehicle. That is unfortunate as they are great cars. Just choose one carefully.
I still have my 997.1 (rebuilt) but i would never buy another principally because of the scoring issue
Cheers