bhvrdr

id get that looked at. Could be oil temp sensor. Your oil should be hitting 190-210 with normal low to mid rev warmup driving. You should not have to drop the hammer to get oil off the 150 degree mark

Petza914

Yes, you should be at 175 or 180 before you accelerate rapidly or exceed 3,500 RPM.

That's impossible unless your gauge is malfunctioning or you live where it's 0 degress F all the time. 150 is the bottom of the gauge. It should take about 7-10 minutes for the oil temp to come up to 175 or 180 during the summer, maybe a little bit longer in the winter if it's quite cold. My car has the 3rd center radiator with auxiliary coolant pump circulating the coolant and a MantisSport deep sump and on a 90 degree day at 85 MPH, oil temp will run between 200 and 225 F. My wife's car is more stock, but under the same conditions will run within 10% of those temperatures.

If it really wasn't getting warmer than that, your oil would be a frothy mess with water mixed in as the condensation from warm-up would never evaporate out - it needs to hit 212 F to boil the condensed water away.

sandwedge

Sorry but that's not correct. There are documented failures on all MY cars with the IMS. Very few and far between on -06 to -08 cars to be sure but the issue wasn't "fixed" until the IMS was done away with altogether starting with the -09 DFI engines.

2008: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l#post15048631

2007: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post8924078

2006: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post9067592

2007: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post9677220

sandwedge

Engine seems near bullet proof. Have yet to read about an outright failure. Someone mention the HP fuel pump for good reason. Seems somewhat vulnerable with some failures reported here. Mine failed on the -11 GTS but was replaced at no cost as it's a recall item so I'm guessing that applies to the earlier .2 cars as well.

I would probably call the PDK - if you choose that route - the most problematic item on the 997.2. It's a technical marvel and impressive without reservations but there have been failures. Problem is that Porsche will not allow dealerships to take this transmission apart so with just a few exceptions, any failure means full replacement of the whole transmission. If you're out of warranty and Porsche refuses any goodwill money, this means about $12,000 out of your pocket. Mine failed on the -09 C4S and that tab came to $14,000 (covered by extended warranty). I hear prices have come down a bit since then but still a big one.

rootwyrm

The HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) is a guaranteed failure on the 997.2. It's just going to go. It's not a big deal. Porsche will generally goodwill, and if not, it's only $1k for the part. (Remember to depressurize before attempting install.) It's definitely not a big deal to have fail - more like losing a coil than losing a cylinder. Just swap in new part, ignore the codes the failure set, and you're good as new. Onyxia's HPFP was replaced before she was offered for sale. It's essentially a wear part issue, but one that wears prematurely.

The PDK is second only to the C4GTS center differential. One thing I will tell everyone about the C4GTS is that it is the greatest Porsche 997.2 you can buy in 6 speed form, period. Add some power and it will devour everything. It's that over the top. But if you break the front differential? It's over $10k to replace because it S uses the Turbo S part, not the C4S part, and is non-rebuildable. Same problem out back. Do not even ask about the center differential. If you have to ask what it costs to fix that? You can't afford it. The good thing is that it's very unlikely, even on high mileage examples. But if the center is going, you'll know. Immediately.
When you've been told "the price is 'call Stuttgart,' so only if you REALLY need it," you know things just went off the rails.

Doug H

I personally would not purchase a 997.1 of any year due to bore scoring issues. The IMS can be upgraded for $$$ to prevent catastrophic failure, but bore scoring . . you cannot not do anything about that and there is a very good chance it is occurring in your engines without you even knowing about it.

I have been a Porsche 911 fanatic, 911 owner and racer of 911s since the 1980s, but view the M96/M97 as black mark on Porsche that should be unacceptable. Those throwing around 1% . . . that is beyond wishful thinking and perhaps a disingenuous invitiation to a miserable party.

Spend a few extra thousand to not only get a better car, but to avoid potential heartache.

pdks are fine and holding up well and I have driven the wheels off 930s, 965s, 993tts, 996tts, 997tts and a 991tt as daily drivers. They are dang near bullet proof . . . Just the NAs and the M96 started out to be a disaster right out of the box with the RMS, then the IMS and now bore scoring with the M96/M97. This has to be the single worst component Porsche has ever produced and it happens to be an entire engine.

Qwksnke

Sorry guys, you are correct. I had my numbers confused last night. Forgot 150 was the bottom of the gauge. 175 is what I meant.

NuttyProfessor

I completely empathize with your disdain for the 996 and 997.1 cars, but in all fairness shouldn't we be more specific? For example, the 996 Turbo has a M96 classification. More specifically, M96/70(SE,S, SL). The 996 GT3 is also a M96, but more specially, M96(76,79,80). Wouldn't you agree these two cars are both Mezger engine based with a completely different configuration? Maybe it's better to say all non-mezger based M96/M97 cars are the black eye of Porsche? While I don't share your disdain, I completely respect your opinion.

zirrah

Welp, I stand corrected. I suppose its a small number but does happen. Thanks for the information.

Doug H

Wayne Smith

At 150 you mean your gauge is broken. Get it fixed. You need to know you oil temp.

You're water gauge stops at 175 (it lies to you so you don't worry about it). The oil has to be hotter than the water.

In summer on mountain passes I've seen mine reach 275. I know I'm steaming off the absorbed water 8)

I won't go over 3K rpm until I reach 175. I wait for 200 before I exceed 4K rpms. From then on red line is the limit.

IMHO the design of the block requires this care to avoid cold seizing and bore score. Some on this Forum scoff at my concern. Everyone is free to define their own routine.

Sorry ... Catching up and responded to your earlier post before seeing the later one.

Petza914

Not to split hairs, but to avoid confusion, the GT3 is a Mezger based NA car.

sandwedge

Sure, the IMS can be upgraded fairly inexpensively on the early -05 cars but becomes expensive for late -05's through -08's since unless I'm mistaken the engine has to come apart to get to the larger bearing. Agree completely about the bore scoring though. Nothing you can do about it except maybe lowering the odds of it happening by buying a car you can confirm never saw cold temperatures for any length of time. Not sure if there's any statistical hard proof of this but many seem to agree that cars driven in colder climate seem to be more susceptible.

mjsporsche

Cars driven properly in cold temperature climates are not the problem. Cars driven improperly in cold temperature climates are the problem. There is a difference so lets not throw all of us cold climate people under the bus.

Charles Navarro

I'm currently doing research on the HPFP issue is more widespread than just Porsche engines. There is no test currently in the ASTM for gasoline lubricity. They are using a modified diesel lubricity test, but because of the volatility of gasoline, the testing isn't very accurate or representative of real world results. The papers I've read more or less state that manufacturers are using current production models as in field tests and adjust while a standard for lubricity is determined and as technology trickles down to help with lubricity related failures such as coatings offered by Oerlikon Balzers, which we use in the IMS Solution.

Long story short, part of this has to do with the poor lubricity in ethanol fuels. What you can do to help with this is to try to use non-ethanol fuels, where available. The next best thing would be to use Top Tier fuels and use regular ethanol fuel system treatments. Driven makes one called Injector Defender and for older cars with carbs, Carb Defender.

Although the elimination of sulfur from diesel fuels led to lubricity issues, the added biomass provided more than ample lubricity. Ethanol is highly corrosive and requires significant dosing of fuels with LE (lubricant enhancers), which lead to intake deposits.

The technology hasn't been perfected yet.