First time 911 owner: C2 or C4?
07-07-2018, 03:39 PM
#16
Rocky Mountain High
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One of the common misconceptions regarding AWD Porsche 911s is that they were designed for better traction during inclement weather conditions. While this can be true in some instances, the real purpose of the design was to allow the driver to apply engine power more quickly when exiting a corner.
Any 911 will do well in rain or snow when equipped with proper tires and when driven appropriately. Additionally, the vast majority of people can’t tell the difference in a RWD 911 and an AWD 911 when driven on the street. How often do you get a car sideways when driving to work? On the track, this is obviously not the case.
I don’t think that AWD takes away from the “911 experience” for most people. Like many, I think the wide body cars look better.
Ultimately, you have to prioritize the features and driving attributes that you prefer. If you prefer the looks of the wide body cars, and you will mostly drive on the street, then get a C4 or C4S. If you want to have the ability to get sideways and have fun on the track every now and again, then get the C2 or C2S.
I don't think that weather should be a major factor in the decision.
Any 911 will do well in rain or snow when equipped with proper tires and when driven appropriately. Additionally, the vast majority of people can’t tell the difference in a RWD 911 and an AWD 911 when driven on the street. How often do you get a car sideways when driving to work? On the track, this is obviously not the case.
I don’t think that AWD takes away from the “911 experience” for most people. Like many, I think the wide body cars look better.
Ultimately, you have to prioritize the features and driving attributes that you prefer. If you prefer the looks of the wide body cars, and you will mostly drive on the street, then get a C4 or C4S. If you want to have the ability to get sideways and have fun on the track every now and again, then get the C2 or C2S.
I don't think that weather should be a major factor in the decision.
07-07-2018, 05:33 PM
#17
So may as well chime in with my $0.02 since I'm in the same boat somewhat. First timer, 997.2, wrestled with the C2 vs C4 debate at length. More importantly: I'm intimately familiar with what you're used to. My toys are lightweight, high power FWD. (Though I'm more JCW than S.) So I speak your language fluently.
Porsche AWD is not like your typical road car AWD system. Front push-back is pretty minimal. It ain't no Subaru. Both cars are going to require you to change you style and habits significantly. The wider rear, however, will mimic the "danger" hop you know from FWDs going over rough pavement with the stiffer suspensions. (The best way to experience is to find yourself a RWD GTS and set it in Sport.) It can be extremely unsettling, but it's not an indicator of traction loss like it is in FWD. That can be true for C4 as well depending on options, and probably the biggest difference you'll have to acclimate to. (Yes, yes, I know, I know. We're talking FWD though.) A few hours with a front-rear isn't going to change your muscle memory when you're daily driving the Mini. You're going to have to relearn throttle patterns, and acclimate to a very different set of habits, but the 997.2 is a very driver-friendly car in that regard.
Neither car is "safer" than the other though - just ask my insurance. C2 premium is the same as C4. The number of driven wheels don't really impact the habits of the chassis, both good and bad. It just changes the delivery. My honest advice as a fellow first timer is to pass on what my Porsche guy told me: drive as many different 997.2's as you can, and just go with the one you like best, because they're all great. The one thing I would add though is, don't fall in love with the GTS - they're too damn hard to find.
Porsche AWD is not like your typical road car AWD system. Front push-back is pretty minimal. It ain't no Subaru. Both cars are going to require you to change you style and habits significantly. The wider rear, however, will mimic the "danger" hop you know from FWDs going over rough pavement with the stiffer suspensions. (The best way to experience is to find yourself a RWD GTS and set it in Sport.) It can be extremely unsettling, but it's not an indicator of traction loss like it is in FWD. That can be true for C4 as well depending on options, and probably the biggest difference you'll have to acclimate to. (Yes, yes, I know, I know. We're talking FWD though.) A few hours with a front-rear isn't going to change your muscle memory when you're daily driving the Mini. You're going to have to relearn throttle patterns, and acclimate to a very different set of habits, but the 997.2 is a very driver-friendly car in that regard.
Neither car is "safer" than the other though - just ask my insurance. C2 premium is the same as C4. The number of driven wheels don't really impact the habits of the chassis, both good and bad. It just changes the delivery. My honest advice as a fellow first timer is to pass on what my Porsche guy told me: drive as many different 997.2's as you can, and just go with the one you like best, because they're all great. The one thing I would add though is, don't fall in love with the GTS - they're too damn hard to find.
07-07-2018, 06:08 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Either one, makes little difference. Even if you turn off all nannies in a C2, you will still have to try really hard to get into trouble. I would not think much about C2 vs C4 and just find the right car, as there are many other important factors.
07-07-2018, 06:28 PM
#19
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Have always been a die hard rear wheel drive person. Until recently found myself driving C4S. My car is driven year around through Michigan winters. Traction on snow and ice is outstanding. Because of balance between front drive and rear drive, you would never know the front wheels are engaged. C4 is the way to go if you live in an area with occasional snow and ice. Although due to low clearance, no good in accumulated snow. Four inches or more.
07-07-2018, 08:15 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
For a first 911 it was important to me to get a RWD. I had just had an AWD sports coupe before that and wanted nothing to do with AWD. Still don't really.
07-07-2018, 08:44 PM
#21
Have always been a die hard rear wheel drive person. Until recently found myself driving C4S. My car is driven year around through Michigan winters. Traction on snow and ice is outstanding. Because of balance between front drive and rear drive, you would never know the front wheels are engaged. C4 is the way to go if you live in an area with occasional snow and ice. Although due to low clearance, no good in accumulated snow. Four inches or more.
07-07-2018, 08:51 PM
#22
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9929...ne-racing.html
07-07-2018, 09:21 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
I live in the northwest (Seattle) where the weather is mild but often wet. I'm replacing my modded Mini Cooper S with something like a 997 Porsche 911 (looking to move away from FWD and get something a lot more exciting).
In addition to occasional fun drives, I will need to also daily drive this on my short 5 mile commute into downtown Seattle.
Being new to RWD and the fact that I'll be driving this on non-ideal weather days, should I get a C4? Does the C4 take away the fun?
C4 Pros:
- Safer?
- Wider body (nicer style)
C2 Pros:
- More fun?
- Less expensive (might even be able to get C2s for same price as C4)
BTW, I've driven both and found them equally exciting to drive on a short test drive. I didn't get a chance to try to really push it or get it sideways with the dealer riding shotgun.
In addition to occasional fun drives, I will need to also daily drive this on my short 5 mile commute into downtown Seattle.
Being new to RWD and the fact that I'll be driving this on non-ideal weather days, should I get a C4? Does the C4 take away the fun?
C4 Pros:
- Safer?
- Wider body (nicer style)
C2 Pros:
- More fun?
- Less expensive (might even be able to get C2s for same price as C4)
BTW, I've driven both and found them equally exciting to drive on a short test drive. I didn't get a chance to try to really push it or get it sideways with the dealer riding shotgun.
The way you find out is after a long dry spell and then a real down pour. All that stuck to the ground feeling is gone all of a sudden and the rear starts to dance around almost like you're driving on ice. Another clue is that the rears start to get really noisy when worn to that level. I'm guessing the RWD 997's will behave the same way. Haven't taken my GTS that far yet,
07-07-2018, 11:53 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Also, good tires and correct inflation make a significant difference. I run a GT3 rain and shine and have no issues. The GT3 has no electronic gimmicks to correct bad driving. Anything that goes wrong is purely the driver's fault. Modern 911s have dialed out the legendary gremlins of the past.
07-08-2018, 02:02 AM
#26
Florida weather during the summer months is similar to NW weather. Lots of rain except we sometimes get long periods of dry weather. The two 997 C4S's I've had so far have given a lot of confidence on rain soaked roads but I'm quick to add a qualifier to that. They need good rubber to deliver that stability. The issue I've run into a couple of times is that the rear tires seem to ride with most of its weight on the inner 2-3 inches and that wear is hard to see unless you get on the ground. I've had rear tires that looked almost new when viewed standing next to them but were worn to where the cord was visible on those 2-3 inch inside once you got a better look.
The way you find out is after a long dry spell and then a real down pour. All that stuck to the ground feeling is gone all of a sudden and the rear starts to dance around almost like you're driving on ice. Another clue is that the rears start to get really noisy when worn to that level. I'm guessing the RWD 997's will behave the same way. Haven't taken my GTS that far yet,
The way you find out is after a long dry spell and then a real down pour. All that stuck to the ground feeling is gone all of a sudden and the rear starts to dance around almost like you're driving on ice. Another clue is that the rears start to get really noisy when worn to that level. I'm guessing the RWD 997's will behave the same way. Haven't taken my GTS that far yet,
07-08-2018, 08:32 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Yes. The asymmetrical wear caught me by surprise when I first experienced it. I took a set of P-Zero well past 8,000 miles and in a moderately heavy rain the rear hydroplaning made it feel like I was driving on Teflon. A tire-friendlier rear alignment would make sense if you don't track your car.