oronymo

I live in the northwest (Seattle) where the weather is mild but often wet. I'm replacing my modded Mini Cooper S with something like a 997 Porsche 911 (looking to move away from FWD and get something a lot more exciting).

In addition to occasional fun drives, I will need to also daily drive this on my short 5 mile commute into downtown Seattle.

Being new to RWD and the fact that I'll be driving this on non-ideal weather days, should I get a C4? Does the C4 take away the fun?

C4 Pros:
- Safer?
- Wider body (nicer style)

C2 Pros:
- More fun?
- Less expensive (might even be able to get C2s for same price as C4)

BTW, I've driven both and found them equally exciting to drive on a short test drive. I didn't get a chance to try to really push it or get it sideways with the dealer riding shotgun.

Doug H

Balr14

The C4 has more expensive parts to break.

oronymo

Does the PSM on the C2/C2S work well enough to keep the car in line even in the wet? I don't want to get wrapped around a tree just because I put my foot in it a bit too much around a corner. I know older 911's were a bit notorious for that...

FYI, I drove a 718 Cayman in the wet and found its ability to correct my shenanigans to be pretty good (a little spin and then snapped back in line) - I'm guessing the PSM on 997 is similar?

ADias

It seems that you need some DE training. With a good driver any car can be safe

Doug H

911 is a very stable, easy to drive plat form. The weight in the rear provides good traction in wet and snow for a sports car.

wamzM3

Do you mind detailing which parts you are talking about. Really considering a C4/ C4S because of the wide rear look

Petza914

With the right tires, PSM, and some common sense, a C2S is perfectly stable, even in super heavy rain. Plus, you'd get the more playful RWD driving dynamics and that unbelievable front end feel from the older hydraulic steering. You have to throw away your preconceptions about RWD when talking about a 911 because any other RWD car you drove didn't also gave the engine in the rear, which provides for plenty of traction - 911s win overall class races in heavy rain because of this (2015 Petit left Mans at Road Atlanta beating all the Prototype cars).

I also prefer the rear fender shape of the NB cars as they don't get that flat spot in the middle of the fender and make a continuous compound curve instead. Also the fender doesn't stick out past the taillight. In the 997 generation, the body is curvy enough where unless 2 cars are parked side by side, you'd have a tough time telling a NB from a WB. There are fewer models offered in NB (really only the C2, C2S, and GT3) as well.

My NB cars




You might need more seat time in both to decide one way or the other

My993C2

Now driving a C4 in the wet at or near the limits of a race track will be easier than the two wheel version. But C4s aren't safer than C2s. It is the driver who makes things safer. Also on dry surfaces you will under steer more when driving at or near the limit in the C4 than you will in the C2. But once again that doesn't make C2s safer. Now as far as pushing it with the dealer riding shotgun, a few weeks ago I test drove a used 2010 997.2 C2S with a dealer and yes I didn't come remotely close to driving at or near the limit in a straight line mainly because we were on the public roads. But that didn't stop me from doing a fairly aggressive right turn. I just didn't tell him, I just did it and ... LOL ... out of the side of my eyes I could see him reach for the door handle to hold on. But hey if I was going to buy the car (which I ended up doing) I needed to know how the front end would grip in the corners and the 997.2 C2S did very well. My test drive with the dealer wasn't even remotely close to how I want to end up driving the car on the race track in DE open lapping sessions. But it was sufficient enough to sow the seeds of what the car was capable of doing.

In summary I can't tell you to buy the C2 over the C4 or visa versa. I just wanted to chime in and say it is more driver than car (assuming of course you have decent and equal tires on both vehicles).

Doug H

I have owned 9 AWD turbos and one C4S. I never had any issues whatsoever with the AWD systems and I used my turbos as daily drivers putting up to 70k hard driven miles on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My993C2

Now driving a C4 in the wet at or near the limits of a race track will be easier than the two wheel version. But C4s aren't safer than C2s. It is the driver who makes things safer. Also on dry surfaces you will under steer more when driving at or near the limit in the C4 than you will in the C2. But once again that doesn't make C2s safer.

Understeer bias would actually make a car safer. 911s push due to lack of weight in the front and technically a C2 will have less weight than a C4 in front. Suspension geometry and bad driving also create oversteer and understeer, but these cars have nannies and one has to do something really stupid to get into trouble.

jeebus31

I'm biased because I have a C4, but I love the wide hips and I'm glad I bought it over a C2. The front diff on the 997.1 is a simple viscous clutch and though the seals CAN fail, it's not known to be a weak point. Not sure about the 997.2 but I doubt it has significant issues.

Also, if the front diff fails, you can either rebuild it or just remove it and have a wide-body C2.

oronymo

Thanks for the input everyone.

My preference is the C2 I think - I'd like to experience RWD dynamics - I just want to understand how it behaves on unpredictable roads in wet conditions.

I've done track training days previously, but mostly on my FWD Mini (although I've also done a couple times in a track setup e36 3 series). I don't plan on doing anything crazy and whatever I end up with, I would definitely do some training days to understand the cornering dynamics better.

sober_owl

a rwd 911 isnt wat u expect...rear engine makes it very hard to break the rear loose...(good tires)...

ive driven mines hard in the rain and wet roads never fell unsafe.. wide tires and rear engine make it hug the roads..

a c4 imo useless unless u want the wider rear by like 1 inch..
why? well unless u drive it in the snow with snow tires u dont need an awd 911.. unless its a turbo of course..

get the one that fits ur chexk list.. interior/ exterior color. etc..

Balr14

Clutch, half shafts, differential, seals, CV joints and electronics. I'm not saying they will fail or be a problem, but they are potential points of failure and you don't need it where you live. But, if you want to spend the money because the rear end is 1 1/2" wider, it's your money.

ADias

Great! So if you have DE training you know how to be smooth in all input applications.