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Thinking of buying the complete Fabspeed 997 performance package

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Old 02-09-2018, 02:46 PM
  #16  
BaileyII
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Lowcountry I have the Fabspeed intake, the sound is amazing and looks impressive. I went a different route w/ the exhaust and tune however Iím sure that you will love the set up that you are going with. Good luck with your decision. #savethemanuals
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:46 PM
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Although bhvrdr, the question I have is what do those graphs show? If it is just a comparison with Fabspeed headers but otherwise everything else stock, then the data is not entirely instructive. The kit under discussion here does include hi flow cats, different exhaust configuration from stock, freer flowing mufflers, dual CAI, and a tune. That will result in measurable performance over a stock Carrera. Whether it is 30 hp, or 45 hp, or something in between, it is going to be very much within that range I believe.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by linderpat View Post
Although bhvrdr, the question I have is what do those graphs show? If it is just a comparison with Fabspeed headers but otherwise everything else stock, then the data is not entirely instructive. The kit under discussion here does include hi flow cats, different exhaust configuration from stock, freer flowing mufflers, dual CAI, and a tune. That will result in measurable performance over a stock Carrera. Whether it is 30 hp, or 45 hp, or something in between, it is going to be very much within that range I believe.

Tough to say. I cant agree or disagree with that because we have zero independent data to suggest one way or the other on those exact components. We have data that shows the headers make no power over 4500rpm provided by the company who is trying to sell them to us. Whether their other mods gain or lose power over or under stock is unknown to me. We do know that porsches own engineers did cylinder heads, full intake tract (manifold, box), headers, exhaust, etc and got 20hp so it would be awesome to see how fabspeed doubled that with half the parts.



Mike
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Old 02-09-2018, 05:43 PM
  #19  
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First, I'm a Fabspeed believer. There are those on this forum who are not and some who are adamant that these mods are worthless and that only going to true forced induction or buying a significantly more expensive 911 is the answer. I disagree. I've modded many past vehicles and never been dissatisfied with the performance results.

My '08 C2S. was purchased last March, and have now (mostly) added the Fabspeed equipment you are interested in. I am fortunate enough to live within 15 minutes of the Fabspeed headquarters, so I have purchased and had the installations done at their shop (which is incredible). I added each mod incrementally, as I prefer to experience the performance add-ons, individually. So far, I have placed:

Fabspeed Dual Air Intake
Fabspeed 200cel X-Pipe
MyGenius ECU Tune

Each of these changes has demonstrated observable improvement in the engine sound, throttle response and power band adjustment. Of course, maybe I am biased.

The last Fabspeed mod I added was the IPD GT3 Throttle Body and Plenum, which I had my indy do because the techs at Fabspeed were booked up and I am much too impatient! I am struggling with a decision about their aftermarket exhaust, because I want a valved, selectable loudness upgrade and Fabspeed does not make a valvetronic Max-Flo muffler for the 997.1 any longer. I would have added it in a second, but they just won't fabricate it.

The bottom line is that these mods alone (no upgraded headers or muffler changes) are likely to offer a tremendous performance improvement that should knock your socks off. I loved my 997 before it was modded. I love it more now.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:09 AM
  #20  
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I believe in real world data

If you look at Fabspeeds own advertising on their desktop site for this $7600 package you see they list the hp and tq gains as "TBD" .... I've never actually seen that before from a professional tuning company but lets assume that means "to be determined" .... ahhh ... by who?

op, if you really do want performance results I'd simply run a few stock vbox logs of 60-130 and ask the tuner to put in writing what their package will decrease this by...if they'e not willing to do this you'l know what they'e selling you.

you can also ask other folks who have bought this package what their before and after acceleration times and trap speeds were and that will give you a genuine idea as to the performance increase as opposed to how it "feels" to a person. When you drop 7500 bucks and get a louder exhaust the body and brain can make you feel all kinds of things in the name of cognitive dissonance. Happens to me which is why I always do full before and after testing on the parts I install.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/682694-B8-S4-Stock-versus-Chipwerke-Stage-1-versus-Chipwerke-Stage-2-testing
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:44 AM
  #21  
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still waiting around for a car owner dyno sheet for gains on these kinds of mods. I think there is a reason these dyno sheets aren't out there.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:02 AM
  #22  
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Comes a point you have to weigh $ vs upgrading to faster vehicle
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:13 AM
  #23  
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I have a complete Fabspeed valvetronic performance package on my 997.1 C2S and it's awesome. Unfortunately for you I can't do a direct comparison to my wife's identical 997.1 C2S because mine is also supercharged by RUF. I did add all the Fabspeed stuff myself and with the forced induction, all that freer breathing in (J-pipe intake) and out (exhaust - equal length long tube headers, 200 cell X-cats, valvetronic mufflers with Custom RUF tips) has improved the performance of the RUF kit. It's the only car I've ever owned where I haven't wished it had more power or was faster - more would just be unusable.

The Fabspeed header design is better than the stock header or the X51 header both of which don't time the exhaust pulses properly and create turbulence in the collector. A few months ago I did a detailed post on this in another exhaust thread with photos of all 3 and more detailed explanations if you can find that one. (Edit. Found it - post #49 here - https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/931485-intake-upgrade-is-worth-it-2.html)

Intake by itself really only adds sound and throttle response, but probably not much power except at high RPMs where maximized flow and straightened air entering the intake manifolds matters. If doing an intake mod, I'd also add the ipd plenum which has a Y shape at the split instead of the T shape of the stock one. See actual data gathered by an independent enthusiast - gasongasoff - in post #1 of this thread - https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/390504-cold-air-intake-fabspeed-vs-stock-maf-measurements-inside.html

When I did my exhaust, I did it all at once so can't comment on what I thought each component added, but as a whole, it's excellent from a sound perspective. I'd really like to put my car on a dyno as I expect I'm somewhere around 500 HP since RUF under reports their HP and torque numbers and the car is stronger and faster now than when they supercharged it.






https://youtu.be/VMJ_NLjjJNw


My wife's mostly stock C2S has an evoms intake, ipd plenum, and gundo hacked mufflers. It's great too. Different sound than mine, but without the engine mods not in the same category from a speed or power perspective. When I bought her car, it had the gundo mufflers but nothing else. We did the evoms intake as part of a TT decklid conversion and I added the plenum to maximize the flow at higher RPMs. Car runs strong and has great throttle response, so great that I don't like it in SC mode as the throttle is now too twitchy in that mode, almost feeling like it has a Sprint Booster installed.




Only you can decide if the money is worth it, but there are definite improvements to be had over a stock setup.

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Old 02-10-2018, 07:06 PM
  #24  
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For whatever it is worth I timed my car before/after an IPD plenum and it was slower after. I love modding, too. But I've learned now there is less on the table with higher end sports cars than 'regular' cars. You can get 5% out of the car for reasonable money but may come with consequences. The X51 to me has always been proof in the pudding that tuners aren't going to get 10% out of them without significant $$$. Even going the X51 route can be problematic; I recall reading someone tried the dual snorkel X51 intake system and ended up running too lean as the MAF wasn't calibrated for it. The only "proven" mod and the one that's reasonable is removing the catalytic converter or minimizing that pinch point in the exhaust system. The M97 motors also have crappy exhaust headers, you're likely to see something there with an aftermarket unit akin to the X51 style collectors but Petra has some good points to consider on it. Whether you need a tune and/or run the risk of fouling 02 sensors is up for debate. There's also emissions compliance if you're in a state that is into that sorta thing.

I have Fister D mufflers and love them; great sound, those with the brake air ducts, throttle pedal extension and third radiator were the best mods I have done for the track so far. Everything else has been fluff that I don't notice or care about.

I suggest aiming for a 5% rule;
  • Find 15 hp - cats and headers
  • Drop 150 lbs - Seats, wheels, battery, muffler and driver!
  • Go 245/305 tire - make 'em sticky
  • GT3 lower control arms and front/rear sway bars with a GT3 alignment
  • Enjoy 105% more!
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:11 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Fined View Post
still waiting around for a car owner dyno sheet for gains on these kinds of mods. I think there is a reason these dyno sheets aren't out there.
+X51


all these mods have zero credibility with me, pretty pictures posted above aside I believe they do nothing for power. Prove me wrong with a full before/after dyno someone.

I have a stock X51 997.1, it is practically as fast as my GT3. No bolt on bling is going to do what the factory did for development and testing. The only practical benefit of an aftermarket system I have see data on is weight loss.
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:14 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
I believe in real world data
Yeah me too, and that's why I continue to publicly cast doubt any real world improvement from mod vendors until they can show data. They look pretty, but so do the fake cooling grills on a new Civic.
"visual performance"
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Old 02-11-2018, 04:38 PM
  #27  
Petza914
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Originally Posted by Backmarker View Post
+X51


all these mods have zero credibility with me, pretty pictures posted above aside I believe they do nothing for power. Prove me wrong with a full before/after dyno someone.

I have a stock X51 997.1, it is practically as fast as my GT3. No bolt on bling is going to do what the factory did for development and testing. The only practical benefit of an aftermarket system I have see data on is weight loss.
.... so the X51 kit opens up the intake with a second decklid opening and a more direct path into the airbox, and redesigns the headers to have slightly more efficient exhaust egress, but you don't think the aftermarket doing the same thing will have a similar effect... interesting.

I love the mentality that if Porsche didn't do it then there aren't any benefits to it being done. They have to balance costs, benefits, cars used in all kinds of varying conditions, emissions certification, and probably 20 other things whereas the aftermarket can make far more specialized offerings, that can also cost more and not negatively impact a brands sales or have lesser models encroaching on more expensive flagship models.

The one link I posted from gasongasoff's insependent test does show a power increase from the intake mod. If the car's DME is showing that its running with a higher fuel trim due to it metering more air through the MAF, the car wouldn't just be running richer at the same power, it, 's actually making more power by getting mote sir in, mixing it with more fuel, and then exhausting it out. The ingested air in the engine compartment might be hot at idle, but tgat doesn't matter since you don't need s lot of power at that time. Once moving there is plenty of cold sir coming into the engine bay to draw into the motor and that's why the open intakes work even though all the naysayers call them Hot Air Intakes.

Last edited by Petza914; 02-11-2018 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 02-11-2018, 05:29 PM
  #28  
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I’d like to see comments about the rumours I’ve read about Fabspeed items not actually being fabricated in the US but are rebranded Taiwanese imports.

To be fair, a lot of aftermarket companies do not always post demo graphs. And even if they do, what do we know about all the variables from that day, or if it was even the same day?

My own personal opinion is that many aftermarket exhaust and intake parts for 997s and Porches in general are quite expensive for what they are (and another ~30% more so for me and my fellow Canadians at current exchange rates). If I’m spending that amount, I’d want to be absolutely sure I’m spending the cash on quality which reflect the price tag. My car is also a factory optioned X51 and I’m glad for it, and I take heart in knowing the detail the factory went to obtain the gains it did. A premium was paid by the initial owner for sure, but we all know that the factory’s R&D budget will far exceed what just about any aftermarket tuner can spend, let alone the time in running that development.

It’s just like Formula One - the big teams spend piles more money on multiple development paths compared to the small teams. Eventually the development ideas may converge, but the big teams will have gotten there far quicker and almost undoubtedly will stay faster than the small teams.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:17 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Saaboteur View Post
Iíd like to see comments about the rumours Iíve read about Fabspeed items not actually being fabricated in the US but are rebranded Taiwanese imports.

To be fair, a lot of aftermarket companies do not always post demo graphs. And even if they do, what do we know about all the variables from that day, or if it was even the same day?

My own personal opinion is that many aftermarket exhaust and intake parts for 997s and Porches in general are quite expensive for what they are (and another ~30% more so for me and my fellow Canadians at current exchange rates). If Iím spending that amount, Iíd want to be absolutely sure Iím spending the cash on quality which reflect the price tag. My car is also a factory optioned X51 and Iím glad for it, and I take heart in knowing the detail the factory went to obtain the gains it did. A premium was paid by the initial owner for sure, but we all know that the factoryís R&D budget will far exceed what just about any aftermarket tuner can spend, let alone the time in running

I assume you ate talking about the exhausts. As far as I read this was not a rumor but rather this was admitted by fabspeed themselves. While they began by stating that all of their products are fabricated and designed and assembled in the United States they did admit to the Ferrari owners that many of their products are actually outsourced but that's probably here nor there. I would assume many companies do this.

As far as the other parts of the "performance package" you can see right on the photo you have the generic dimsport flashing device loader which is the same unit that you can find available for hundreds of models of cars and has a software suite where you can modify very generic tables.

http://www.dimsport.it/en/news/dimsport/porsche-ecu-tuning-now-available

That's for our na cars. For the turbo cars they're just selling Cobb access ports.

then you have their intake which looks like a nice simple filter on a stick design which can be very effective although I'm surprised they didn' bother with s velocity stack.

I can understand the hesitation though when you see items like this at $245 being sold as a cold air intake



that had clearly been outsourced from an overseas company who was willing to sell direct for 20 bucks...
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F271856058913




or these $495 pieces of pipe that could be done for 40 bucks at any local shop...

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Old 02-11-2018, 09:37 PM
  #30  
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The X51 is much more than intake and exhaust. Itís the plenum, heads, cams, and tune in addition to the intake and exhaust. Cost is about 13k and the install is pricey too.
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