@TheBruce Best damn summary ever on this subject!!!!

 

Ironic. I swear I thought the 997's interior looked like the 2005 Taurus.

 

I take exception to one big issue... for me of course... I just could not recommend a 997.1 to a young person stretching himself into his first Porsche... even with the low low prices and low failure odds. That price may not be low to him/her and they are most likely buying this as their only car. I had two engines blow of that design... I just could not recommend one of these to someone of this profile.

Now I have a well-off friend... he is looking at pulling a trigger on one just "for fun". He can afford a loss. I am pushing him into it.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

 

You make a great point, Bruce.

I've seen many come on the forums talking trash about people like Jake Raby, Charles Navarro, and Baz calling them "fear-mongers" or "money opportunists" or "pushers of hype". Then, when these trash talkers ignore the advice of these men and experience failure first hand, they usually don't have the guts to come back on the forums and admit to their mistakes. They just move on and accept defeat in silence.

Bruce, I appreciate your willingness to admit the reality of the M97 engines which as we all know have some of the same modes of failure as the M96. Now on the other hand, if the current owners would pull their heads out of their asses and actually address the known issues with the M96/M97 engines, then they're more likely lessen the chances of catastrophic failure.

Just my 2 cents.

Personally, these are great cars, but you must listen to the people that understand the limits of the design.

 

Purchasing a 997.1 is not foolishness.
Foolishness is...

1. Owning a Porsche with only one key.
2. Ignoring ticking sounds and convincing yourself it's just a noisy lifter; therefore, I'll add thick oil on my next oil change.
3. Looking a cream colored coolant in the expansion tank and thinking the temps aren't that bad; therefore, I'll drive it a little longer.
4. It smokes like a freight train because it's not driven enough.
5. It consumes lots of oil just like all performance cars!
6. That puddle is small, I'll just add more coolant.
7. Only one misfire... pffff... I have 5 other good working cylinders!
8. Carrying a 12V shop vac to keep the interior dry.
9. Soot on one tailpipe is normal because it's a burning fuel for goodness sakes!!
10. It just went ((BANG)) and coasts to the side of the road. No harm in restarting it!
11. Metal in the filter. No big deal, I'll just flush it out. The IMS bearing problem is total hype!
12. Thinking that nothing will ever go wrong with these cars.

 

I would not recommend a 997.1, 997.2, 991, 992 ( or any other Porsche) or any other expensive car to anyone who is stretching to buy such a car.

 

This isn't for everyone but to save myself mental anguish, even here in sunny So Cal, I just get an oil change every 6 months regardless of mileage. The oil change means an independent Porsche mechanic goes over the car. If I am ever injury free again, I will go back to doing my own oil changes, and etc. but for now, I go to an indie I trust and pay less than a visit to a psychologist every 6 months to get that peace of mind. In between, I follow basic common sense of letting the car warm up before blasting, and just basic monitoring of the vitals as mentioned above. I am definitely interested in upgrading my cooling system after 2 summers in LA.

 

Thx @kimchee411 and @MexicoBlueTurboS . I should actually include this in the buyers guide.

@Bruce In Philly agree on not buying above your means and/or threshold for loss. If mine blew up tomorrow I would be a little bummed but excited to start ripping it apart for the next chapter.

However I would have no problem recommending the car to anyone who is young and wants to get their hands dirty maintaining the car (and has the desire to learn). For that type of person buying a 997 would be a way better "investment" than buying a $40k Honda Accord, where they are guaranteed to lose $20k on depreciation or a lease over 3 years. That to me is plain stupid.

Cars are ****ty investments. The trick is to find the one that provides you the most enjoyment for the least total cost of ownership. I put 30k miles on my 997, drive it everyday and had a blast with it. I can likely sell it for what I paid, or a couple grand less. If I bought a 991 I would be out $30-40k in depreciation and feeling really guilty about pissing money away.

 

Take a look at my thread. Although it is probably an extreme example...

 

Doing a lot of 997.1 and 997.2 thinking myself. Reading threads like this leaves me with more questions than answers. The real answer is any one of these cars could potentially need a new engine. Is it likely to happen? No. But for someone like me who is ultra risk averse with my money, it does matter. So what I've decided is to stick with a CPO for peace of mind. Compared to buying an aftermarket warranty, I think CPO is a much better option. I know if I bought a 997 (.1 or .2) sans warranty I'd freak myself out every time I drove it always hearing phantom weird noises or what have you. A few $K premium for a CPO is well worth my sanity

And I also looked into getting a gently used (I love that term!) 991 but the depreciation curve is still quite steep. I could afford it. But I'd hate myself knowing how much the car is depreciating while sitting in the garage 6 days a week. 997s have hit the sweet spot for depreciation, especially the 997.1 which is almost flat.

As to the young people buying a 997 (or any used expensive German car) that's part of the problem. You get people buying $100K cars for $40K but can't afford to maintain a $100K car properly. And yes I know not all young people are the same, but generally speaking that's what happens. When you're stretching to make the $40K monthly payment, there's not much left for maintenance.

 

So the earliest 997.1's are going on 15 years old. 997.2 almost 12 years old. Garage queens have their own sets of problems as well as high mileage daily drivers. How many of us are really going out there and purchasing 15 year old high performance cars of any make and expecting another 100k miles of risk free ownership?

I purchased all my cars fairly new with low mileage and just happen to hold on to them long term. I have been very fortunate and have had zero problems, thank God, but at some point you have to admit to yourself that you are purchasing a 10+ year old vehicle and that will come with risks and repairs no matter the manufacturer. There are no guarantees in life... period. If I was going to buy another Porsche today that is 10-20 years old, then I would seriously consider the risks. Even if I was to buy another "bulletproof" model like a 993 or 964 today I can say that I would 100 percent expect to have oil leaks and some major maintenance issue pop up that would require $15k or more to resolve if I held on to it long enough. That's just being realistic and using intelligence based on history in car ownership.

One of the questions the OP asked was... do these 997 models have any other qualities that make them worth the repair or rebuild costs?? I guess that comes down to how important is the 997 as a model year to you? The 997 in the 911 model line up and history is a fantastic car. A bit of the goldilocks in history. Not too big, not too small. Not too old fashioned, not too gadgety. Does many things just about right and still fun as hell to drive. Still looks amazing. To me, with my personal car.... absolutely worth rebuilding if necessary and the 4.0 liter will be the build of choice. Preferrably a Raby build, but time will tell if I ever really need one. For some only if the car is worth saving to you. Some cars will get all the love from the right owner... Others neglected and end up being torn to bits by 10 different owners who could care less. Maybe 10 years later they will be so lucky as to meet an owner who finally gives it the love and attention it requires for a new life and restoration.

I can only say... look at our older 911 brothers. For those who really value the driving experience of the air cooled models... they can drop $20-40k all day long restoring some of those to modern day beauty. No one blinks an eye, but actually congratulates them and looks at them with envy for undertaking the project and spending all that money because we understand the passion. Not sure why we still look at giving any 12-15 year old Porsche (996/997) some incredibly high standard to last forever with zero mechanical issues.

Time marches on, parts wear out, dry up, and become brittle with age. With any 10+ year old sports car.... Buy at your own risk. If you have done your homework then your odds of picking a really nice one increase tremendously.

 

What a great thread! I'm in the process of getting an 07 Targa 4S with 48k. Monday it goes in for a PPI + a borescope. If that's all good I'll pull the trigger.

 

I've owned 5 996's----> 1999 996, 2000 996, 2002 996C4S, 2003 C4S and another 2003C4S
All purchased from RL members w/great service history and lovingly cared for.
Never an IMS issue or concern.

I've owned 3 997's---> 2005 997S, 2007C4S and my current 2007 997S
All purchased from RL members w/great service history and great loving care.
Never any issues, no excessive oil burn - Just fun driving time!

The only way to buy!

 

Has anyone reported bore scoring or IMS issues on the 2008 997.1 C2S, C4S cars at any mileage. Buying one, and weighing the odds I may have some issues now or the near future.

Thanks

 

Bore Scoring has been found in both models. Cars from cold climates more at risk.
Bore Scope Inspection thru the spark plug holes is a must when buying 997 as well as full PPI with DME Over Rev report, Cam Shaft Deviation report and Fault Codes report.
**Bore Scope Inspection should include 3 photos of each cylinder and cost is about $350 for the 2.5 hours.
You are taking a "roll the dice" risk if you don't inspect the engine properly