z06801

It is narrow, I'm just saying it has its place for some people such as myself who want a dedicated track/race car that might not want the expensive upkeep of a Porsche cup car. The turbo is a much nicer place to be for DD or weekend spirited canyon run.

breakfast

the n/a reputation definitely rubs off on the tt since a lot of people have no clue they are different.

I stopped counting how many people asked me if the ims has been replaced yet. *facepalm*

soltino

Mezger

tino

Melb-Mike

Ok, but can you explain that to Byron in MS who just blew his up ?

The LS engines are damn near bullet proof and can go 300K miles. Porsche engines don't exactly have a reputation for staying together very long AND when they blow up, BIG bucks. Brand new LS7 engine with 505 HP NA is less than $13K. Base Carrera engine at least $20K. I don't even want to guess what the 996TT engine would cost new. Junk yard motors are over $25K. Porsche is definitely more sophisticated but not more durable. Our brand new Isuzu NPR HD trucks come with LS engines, 5 year 100,000 mike warranty and pull better than the Diesel engines.

Dock

Source? Supportive data?

Dock

Porsche cars, Porsche options, and Porsche parts are expensive. Being able to pay for all of those is just what comes with the territory if one is going to buy and maintain a Porsche. IMO, it's well worth it for what I get out of the car in terms of enjoyment.

Melb-Mike

I have no argument with that. It is a subjective assessment of dollar vs satisfaction, and as such I agree.

On your prior post, how many track events have you done ? I've done over 50 DE events with Chin, HOD & Seat-Time, raced in SEDIV SCCA for three years and it seems every track clean up delay was due to a 911 or 944 blowing the engine. Are you kidding ? IMS bearing failures, GT3 catching fire, crankshafts breaking in half. Have you ever seen a Vette blow an engine ? Or BMW, or lotus ? Maybe people are over-revving, or bad maintenance.... Not sure but they have a lot of issues. I still love my 996TT

Dock

Now that's some solid data (??).

BTW, we're discussing the Mezger engine.

PAULUNM

There are PLENTY of engine failures documented in the C5 and C6 Z06. Read forums long enough and you'll find there are no failure proof motors out there.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-failures.html

dprantl

Are you saying you have never seen a C5/C6/Z06 throw a rod bearing at the track? I definitely have. Even the <'09 Z06's can starve for oil with a dry sump system, good sump design GM! Seems they fixed it with the ZR-1 a couple of years later though.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...hard-data.html (check the data and then other posts, i.e. post 51)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...r-correct.html

Lotus?
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f157...rvation-80183/

And BTW, Byron's blown 996TT engine is a sample size of '1'.

Dan

Ahmet

Counterpoint, I’ve been instructing for ~10 years including with Chin, NASA, Mazda, Alfa (as well as through VW N.A. etc). I have not seen a 911 engine failure on track though I have seen a number of Corvette, Mustang, Mazda and so on. BMW, certainly, though they’re usually taken out by the cooling system. I had a sway bar bracket break on my personal M3 and a radiator blow as well.

Bleh, all cars/engines break. LSx engines are great. I enjoyed mine, while it resided in the Corvette it was delivered in lol

z06801

In my years at the track I don't know that I have seen a stock Version in a street car of either go first hand, although I know it has happened. I have seen race motors of both go. I think a well cared for motor in both would be unlikely to go in a street driven situation. If taken care of regular oil changes ect. Both would go a few hundred thousand miles no problem. Driving at the track and hours bouncing off rev limiter every shift is a whole different level of stress and abuse. One reason you see a corvette motor go at the track is the fact they are so cheap to replace that people will just run them till they go and put in another 6k LS3 making over 500hp, again this is why I race a corvette and not a Porsche Cup car. 30k from Porsche motor sports rebuilds every 50-100 hours for the motor and 20k for the trans rebuilds makes for costly track/racing hours.

bmwtmx

I raced an E30 M3 in BMW Club Racing, NASA, and PBOC for about 6 years. In my final 2 seasons I lost 3 motors at nearly $20k a pop. I don't race anymore.

z06801

I know, my race motor was 20k also if it ever grenades beyond rebuild ill just start going with a crate motors and move down to ST2

Melb-Mike

I believe we're discussing the C6Z06, and the first year had some minor reports of the needle bearings in the roller rocker arms experiencing failures. I pulled my and inspected every single one without finding any need to replace. The other exaggerated report was of oil starvation on very hard left turns generating 1.3G' of lateral force. Some went to using a larger dry sump oil tank bringing oil capacity up to 10 qts vs the stock 8 qts. The failures were so rare you hardly heard of this after the initial reports.

I will say this about either Porsche or Vette, there are a lot if crybabies out there who exaggerate failures. However, a $7K LS3 motor or $13K LS7 engine is a lot easier to handle than a $25K engine rebuild. GM had more driveline failures than engine issues, like half shafts & U-Joints, occasionally a tranny but very rare.

By the way at a Chin event at Barber track in 2010 had 3 Porsches blow their guts out during the two days.