bmwtmx

Sorry, been missing this thread lately. My car is NOT stock. My tune was recently dynoed at 486HP to the wheels and that is on nothing but a tune and exhaust. I can get the dyno sheet and post it later this week.

When we swapped we went all the way west (in Florida) on open roads and did a few runs both rolling and from a stop. Was always neck and neck unless starting from a dead stop and my car would hook up better. I am not insinuating my Turbo blew the ZR1 away, was more a couple of car-lengths but my car was always ahead no matter the driver.

I am a road racer at heart and have raced and tracked cars since 1999 and do not promote street racing. This was just acceleration and I have zero experience with the ZR1 on the track so not making any calls there. But between the two I was more impressed with my car simply because it is 13 years old. Do I still love Vette's? Hells yeah but now I see the difference. Different experience.

You know, now that I think about things a bit more clearly I was running my track wheel/tire setup (r-compound tires) so this may have truly helped out acceleration. I also do not know for sure if the traction control on the ZR1 was fully disabled. Just being honest here.

Fastboy

I go to a very tight track here in Ontario known as "Cayuga Toronto Motorsport". Its straights are only 1/4 mile, and the majority of the track is crazy tight twisty stuff. As a general rule, I find that drivers of the z06 type Vette's have a very hard staying with me (x50 turbo, UMW chipped, stock exhaust, HR race springs--thats it) - and if there are 3 drops of water on the course, I drop them like they are standing still. However, I have played on that track with some very proficient Vette owners and have been schooled. So my conclusion is- for mediocre drivers like me, the Porsche is more forgiving. But in the hands of a decent driver (which I am likely NOT!) the Vette can sing.
Drive what you feel comfortable in.

Melb-Mike

I find the shorter tracks with more turns will favor a rear engine, rear wheel drive car and if the car is an AWD, even more so. This where momentum makes up for HP. It is a fact that the 996 will be able to apply full power a lot earlier into the turn than the Vette......absolutely now doubt about that. The Vette, if it runs and is driven properly, will overtake the 996 on the longer straights and again lose out somewhat in the short turns. At the Ring, 996TT didn't come close to the Z06 and even more distant to the ZR1 where elevated speeds are a factor on this track. Recently, the GT-R special edition set a new track record amongst its peers. But that is a different chapter altogether. And I wouldn't mind adding one of those to my collection either.

Fastboy

I think my main point remains that given 2 drivers of mediocre skill level the 996 turbo, especially if chipped, has an advantage on a twisty track over high end Vette's.
In the hands of a good driver I think the more powerful Vette's like the z06 or zr1 has the upper hand especially in a less twisty situation
I will say that even a good Vette's driver can't touch my medicre driving skills on the twisty track if it's raining. I leave them behind like they are standing still every time- it really shows how nicely balanced our cars are when conditions are not ideal, not to mention the AWD advantage

Melb-Mike

I'll agree with you especially the part of a rainy track. If it was wet on the track, I didn't run it. The very wide tires on a front engine rear wheel drive aren't conducive to traction on a wet course. The 996 and 997 is exceptional with traction, likely the very best in the world at any price, including the GT-R. Pricing of the Vette keeps it simple and likely will never see AWD. However, look at the price difference. Base C7 is less than $60K. You can't even buy a base Carrera for less than $80K and the 997TT is over $150K before options. A well appointed Cayman will exceed $100K and a well appointed Turbo S will be around $200K. I don't know about you but to me that is serious money and well beyond what I can or would buy. Will the price gap continue to grow and will Porsche be a car for the extremely well heeled ?

Fastboy

A regular stingray is around $60k but the z06 or z01 are closer to $100k here in Canada.
A 996tt x50, with software and exhaust and minor suspension modification will set you back closer to the basic stingray price
And it will blow the stingray away - while being at least in line with the higher end Vette's regarding performance. One Z06 owner told me that their cars don't stand up as well to regular track work, so reliability may be better on the Porsche too.
I recently wrote off my last 996tt due to a building collapsing on it, so I got my insurance $ and seriously considered the corvette and other cars. But I came back to the Porsche - bought another 996ttx50. My reasons were mainly from the observations at the track I mentioned before, and the bulletproof side of the Porsche's engine. There is no substitute.

soltino

and the bulletproof side of the Porsche's engine. There is no substitute.[/QUOTE

================================================

Is that the right or left on your car?

tino

Fastboy

Bulletproof, not building-proof!
Actually, it was amazing how well the car held out when the building collapsed--the damage was entirely cosmetic, but I didn't want to repair it, given the future resale value of it once insurance claim shows up
The pic on my avatar is the old (crushed) car--I need to update my avatar with the new one (seal grey)

cdk4219

These engines are far from bulletproof. Most of them sound like they are going to eat a timing chain at any moment. They may be bulletproof as compared to a NA 996 or boxster, but that certainly isn't saying much. One of the reasons that many think these engines are bulletproof is the fact that many don't drive their cars many miles, and the other fact is the low production number of the cars, leading to lower failure rates than other production cars.

Within the specific type (996 turbo) I would guess the failure rate to be much higher. There are specific examples of high mileage 996 turbos, but after 100,000 miles most people are petrified of purchasing them, if they were so bulletproof, why does that scare everybody?

Kevinmacd

cdk4219 - can't disagree with you more. the IMS noise has nothing to do with if the engine is bullet proof or not. These engines were designed to be run hard, and then mildly for a daily driver. I ask you to show proof where after running these derivative GT1 engines that a large amount have self destructed. Think you will find a very small sample size. The 996tt from 01 to 05 were not small production numbers, if they were the 996tt would have held up with a higher resale value!. Most people are petrified of any cars over 100k so your point is moot.

jumper5836

maybe he is talking about the engines that are pushing 600-1000 hp.

dprantl

Calling an automotive engine bulletproof mostly means the ability to push more HP through the engine *reliably* without changing internal engine components. Very few engines can live up to this claim but it seems the 996TT engine does so very well. Pushing up to 250hp/liter, go and try that with another engine on stock internals. It also has an integrated dry-sump oiling system from the factory. Most wet-sump engines will experience oil starvation to rod bearings on repeated long fast hard right-hand sweeping turns and will punch a hole through the block shortly after that. This includes wet-sumped corvette engines BTW.

Even in stock 450hp form the 996TT is pushing 125hp/liter, and it doesn't need crazy high RPMs to achieve this like a Honda S2000 for example. A similarly stressed 7.0 liter LS7 V8 would need to be putting out 875hp to see the same stresses. This excludes the crank itself since a well-built crank should be able to handle over 1,000hp easily.

Dan

Fastboy

dpranti, I think you may have heard the old ditty that American car fans say "There's no replacement for displacement"
Actually, Porsche proved many years ago that there IS a replacement for displacement…its called ENGINEERING!

Having said all that, I like all cars, including Corvettes. Actually, I would love to buy a Viper to add to my stable--now thats a goofy-powerful beast if there ever was one!!

dprantl

That phrase has been incorrect for almost as long as automobiles with gasoline/diesel engines have been in existence. There is a replacement for displacement, it is called forced induction. Increasing displacement to increase power output is usually the most inefficient, crude and easy way to do it. A Viper is probably the biggest example of this. That said, I wouldn't mind owing a Viper either , at least for a while.

Dan

z06801

I still love them both, to be fair I have to remember how much I have in parts on the race build of the c5 z06 70k and that's without the labor. I even got really good deal on all the Pfadt suspension parts I have, So it should be fast If engine with 3.6l weighs more than a 7.0 and takes up more space it gives the 7.0l a advantage in some uses. But I do love the pull of my turbo on the street, it's amazing! Build quality of course there is no comparison between the two, and I have only thought of the corvette as a good race car donor.