Bob Rouleau

We can talk pressure and old hoses, but as far as I'm concerned gluing the ferrule into the cast pump housing is a dumb design flaw. I'd be happier with a rubber hose and a hose clamp onto a tubular extension of the pump housing. Trouble is, any fix we apply voids the warranty. I really hope this results in a recall and a proper fix.

Gofishracing

Agreed. The settlement may take a long time so fix your fittings is my thought and replace parts as need on your vehicles. Safety first. And then file a complaint with NTHSA.

Dock

So driving on the street produces the same temperatures as driving on the track?

Dock

Gluing is a dumb idea? Was gluing the heat tiles on the space shuttle also a dumb idea?

wross996tt

well when some of them fell off after damage and the shuttle disintegrated on re-entry...I'd say the jury is still out.


But really this is apples and oranges.

Dock

It's not apples to oranges. Adhesives are not bad engineering.

And I believe the tiles came off after being hit by very high speed debris, and not because of the ineffectiveness of the adhesive.

Dock

I'd like to see the data that indicates failures are an issue when the car is driven within it's design limitations (street driving and unmodified).

993GT

adhesives have a finite life....
bolts/castings/welds generally do not

wross996tt

What I mean by apples and oranges is the application of the adhesives are quite different. Adhesives for the shuttle are not meant for numerous cycles of temperature swings, humidity fluctuations, long term vibration, etc. They are meant for extreme conditions for a very limited duration.

Now as to whether the Porsche design of the cooling systems is adequate, I believe the jury is still out, but there is compelling data to suggest the design is flawed...where, how and how to remedy is still up in the air.

Dock, I also agree that adhesives can be quite capable...more so than welds and castings in certain applications (welds and castings do fracture)...whether they are appropriate for this application...I'd have to experiment...

Dock

So bolts/castings/welds generally don't have a finite life? Really??

Dock

Adhesives can be engineered for many different applications.

I'd also offer that the extremes the shuttle's tile adhesive is subject to could stand up to the relative puny maximum temperature, and temperature extremes that an unmodified/street driven Turbo is exposed to.

I'm also waiting for someone (not targeting you) to provide data that shows how many unmodified/street driven (no track time) Turbos have had pipe failures of any kind, and specifically, catastrophic pipe failures (that is, no small leaks found early, only total blow outs).

Gofishracing

well put wross996tt.

SSST

Spoke to my indie about this. Since I have to have the water pump replaced, I decided to get a quote to have the fittings pinned. His advice was not to do it now. He said the failure rate was very low, and although he had done this for customers he has yet to have an actual failure come into his shop.

He suggested waiting until I have to have the motor completely dropped for a clutch replacement and do it then. It would be cheaper since they don't completely drop the motor on a water pump replacement and the labor to get at all the fittings would be about the same as removing the motor.

I figure when someone declines to take my money, I'm probably getting honest advice.

Dock

A voice of reason.

My mechanic didn't have to completely drop the motor to do the clutch replacement on my Turbo.

993GT

A well-designed casting or weld using proper metallurgy is considered lifelong(didn't mean as-in non-finite)...as in lasts longer than the user does; I'm gonna bet my GT2's engine case will be structurally solid long after I'm in the ground, but the sealants used to contain its fluids will leak and give out
Modern adhesives are awesome for certain purposes, but ALL have a finite life, and it is most often much shorter than 'lifelong', and is engineered to 'fail' within a certain timeframe