What areas does the 996TT fall short?
05-26-2012, 07:33 PM
#1
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What areas does the 996TT fall short?
I love my car but come have realize it's only virtually perfect. Some of idiosyncrasies I have discovered and confirmed on this site with some rennlist solutions:
1) 1st gear is too short.
No easy fix. Deal with it or get a TIP
2) Clutch is soft.
Remove helper spring
3) #1 and #2 above make it more work to drive. Take out helper and it's easier.
4) Stock shift kit is very notchy, imprecise, and makes shifting smooth tough.
Upgrade to 997 kit at minimum, or GT2 or GT3 preferred
5) Add notchy shifting to 1 & 2 above and driving begins to be real work.
Upgrade shifting with a kit, remove spring, and it's much more driveable.
6) Seems to float a bit over 100mph unlike my old 965 which tracked better the faster I went.
Possible corner balance/alignment/ride height adjustment. PSS10'S?
On the other hand, it's so bloody good looking even I look good when I'm driving it.
Anyone have any comments? Not about how good I look driving - comments on points 1-6 above.
CHeers
1) 1st gear is too short.
No easy fix. Deal with it or get a TIP
2) Clutch is soft.
Remove helper spring
3) #1 and #2 above make it more work to drive. Take out helper and it's easier.
4) Stock shift kit is very notchy, imprecise, and makes shifting smooth tough.
Upgrade to 997 kit at minimum, or GT2 or GT3 preferred
5) Add notchy shifting to 1 & 2 above and driving begins to be real work.
Upgrade shifting with a kit, remove spring, and it's much more driveable.
6) Seems to float a bit over 100mph unlike my old 965 which tracked better the faster I went.
Possible corner balance/alignment/ride height adjustment. PSS10'S?
On the other hand, it's so bloody good looking even I look good when I'm driving it.
Anyone have any comments? Not about how good I look driving - comments on points 1-6 above.
CHeers
05-26-2012, 11:08 PM
#2
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1. It feels short, but really isn't. It just goes through it too fast because of the power. Makes it feel shorter than it really is.
2. Agree. Do the Home Depot spring mod to hold the pedal off the cruise micro switch.
4. Flush the brake/clutch hydraulics and change the gear oil as well. Really helped.
5. Also, put in the RS motor mounts. Keeps the engine from torquing too much and binding the shift cables. Also improves the handling.
6. Never had that problem with the stock suspension. The faster I went the more settled the car felt. I did think the suspension was too soft and went with the X73.
They aren't perfect, but they are pretty darned brilliant. A few tweaks and they get close to perfect. Also consider a UMW tune. Best mod I have done.
2. Agree. Do the Home Depot spring mod to hold the pedal off the cruise micro switch.
4. Flush the brake/clutch hydraulics and change the gear oil as well. Really helped.
5. Also, put in the RS motor mounts. Keeps the engine from torquing too much and binding the shift cables. Also improves the handling.
6. Never had that problem with the stock suspension. The faster I went the more settled the car felt. I did think the suspension was too soft and went with the X73.
They aren't perfect, but they are pretty darned brilliant. A few tweaks and they get close to perfect. Also consider a UMW tune. Best mod I have done.
05-26-2012, 11:30 PM
#3
1. Yep, but like SSST it is super fast perhaps...
2. Have GT2 slave mod. Perfect now.
3. No longer an issue at all.
4. My 996ssk oem was set up perfectly...butter smooth. But from what I have read in forums, it is not a common thing to say. People "think" it is easy to install, but I think it is not easy to install and stay perfect...my cup car mechanic at Dougherty's had the "touch."....find a person like that. The 997 GT3 kit is the best move though.
5. Repeat of #4.
6. Not happening. Stock was perfect. With coil overs and custom suspension/corner now. Better than perfect. Aero is also rsr/gt2...
Anyway, all of this is easy to modify to your taste. In fact your 1-5 is trivial to modify and is relatively cheap..compared to a new car a 996 and mods to "perfect" is so cheap it is silly. 6 is perhaps just alignment. If not, aero and suspension. On this there are a ton of options. I take that back...1st gear sort of stinks. There is so much torque I wish Porsche had made it a tiny bit taller. In theory, that can be fixed...I should have when I had my tranny open for a 2nd gear pop-out rebuild.....live and learn.
Jeff
2. Have GT2 slave mod. Perfect now.
3. No longer an issue at all.
4. My 996ssk oem was set up perfectly...butter smooth. But from what I have read in forums, it is not a common thing to say. People "think" it is easy to install, but I think it is not easy to install and stay perfect...my cup car mechanic at Dougherty's had the "touch."....find a person like that. The 997 GT3 kit is the best move though.
5. Repeat of #4.
6. Not happening. Stock was perfect. With coil overs and custom suspension/corner now. Better than perfect. Aero is also rsr/gt2...
Anyway, all of this is easy to modify to your taste. In fact your 1-5 is trivial to modify and is relatively cheap..compared to a new car a 996 and mods to "perfect" is so cheap it is silly. 6 is perhaps just alignment. If not, aero and suspension. On this there are a ton of options. I take that back...1st gear sort of stinks. There is so much torque I wish Porsche had made it a tiny bit taller. In theory, that can be fixed...I should have when I had my tranny open for a 2nd gear pop-out rebuild.....live and learn.
Jeff
05-27-2012, 02:04 AM
#4
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1. 1st gear is short so the car can get out of the hole quicker (given its weight and given the turbo lag). I love the short 1st gear because of the very high longitudinal g it produces (especially with my EVOMS added hp and torque); 1st gear is a real e-ticket ride with +500 hp/torque! Love it! I also like the fact that you have to pay attention and drive cleanly in a WOT 1st gear pull. It's challenging, and I like challenging sports cars (challenging like the way sports cars that have the engine in the back are challenging). Because the tach and the actual crank RPM differ as the engine spins up wildly in 1st (the tach can't keep up with the actual crank RPM), the limiter is reached prior to the tach showing 6600 RPM, so shifting needs to be initiated at an indicated RPM of ~6000 in my car to prevent hitting the limiter.
2. After driving my Turbo for over 10 years I have come to the conclusion that my clutch is not too soft. Do I still have to pay attention to what I'm doing to drive smoothly? Yes. But I like being involved when I drive a sports car. My advice? Stay away from a LWFW if you think driving the OEM clutch is "work".
3. If I want low driving effort I take the MB.
4. The OEM shifter was a piece of crap. My B&M shifter with EVOMS shift link fixed the problem.
5. See #3.
6. No float with X73 or similar.
2. After driving my Turbo for over 10 years I have come to the conclusion that my clutch is not too soft. Do I still have to pay attention to what I'm doing to drive smoothly? Yes. But I like being involved when I drive a sports car. My advice? Stay away from a LWFW if you think driving the OEM clutch is "work".
3. If I want low driving effort I take the MB.
4. The OEM shifter was a piece of crap. My B&M shifter with EVOMS shift link fixed the problem.
5. See #3.
6. No float with X73 or similar.
05-27-2012, 02:14 AM
#5
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On the 1st gear topic; I will say that the majority of the people I give a ride to in my Turbo have the most to say about the WOT 1st gear pull that I always show them. I also show them pulls in several of the other gears, but they always comment on how eyeball flattening the 1st gear pull was. I agree with them.
I don't street race or track my Turbo, so I'm never in any kind of competition when I do WOT 1st gear pulls; I do them solely for the fun it brings. So from a practical standpoint, I don't find any drawback with the gearing in 1st.
I don't street race or track my Turbo, so I'm never in any kind of competition when I do WOT 1st gear pulls; I do them solely for the fun it brings. So from a practical standpoint, I don't find any drawback with the gearing in 1st.
05-27-2012, 08:11 AM
#6
Jellonailer,
1 - first gear may seem short because the ECU cuts out revs early - like 6100 RPM or close to that from what I recall.
4 - I put in the 997 stock Turbo kit which is 20-30% less throw than the stock 996 turbo kit - huge improvement
6 - I like you did not like the "floaty" feeling in the stock suspension. Last summer I finally set the car up correctly with KW Clubports, Porsche Motorsport adjustable sways and Tarret drop links - the alignment and drop were not overly aggressive but it made the car handle phenomenally. It actually transformed the handling. To get some of the float out you may be able to twaek tire pressure a bit - on the track in stock Pirelli Assymetricos I used to run about 42-44 rear and 40-42 front (2-3 psi differential) and it worked really well - those are hot track pressures also.
7 (new topic) - seating - ok at best - they should have offered a better option out of the box - the sport seats are way to wide for my frame and neither of the two seats offer any real support. I'm looking for a nice leather heated Recaro with large side and seat bolsters now.
8 (new topic) - tires - I loved the stock Pirelli Assymetricos - street and track they just were a great tire - drive to the track set pressure and go - that simple. They were a bit noisy but I was with that - they stuck well. Pirelli changed to a P-Zero Rosso and I tired them twice in the rear and they are deplorable. I am now on GT 2 width rims and rubber with Michelin PS's. Love them. The supersports are supposed to be even better but they are slow getting the 18 sizes out (probably due to demand).
9 (new topic) - rims - stay with 18's - there are alot more choices in 19's out there but they take alot out of the ride quality (in my opinion).
Get out and drive it and enjoy it - the short list of items above is quickly out done by the twice daily perma smile!!
T2
1 - first gear may seem short because the ECU cuts out revs early - like 6100 RPM or close to that from what I recall.
4 - I put in the 997 stock Turbo kit which is 20-30% less throw than the stock 996 turbo kit - huge improvement
6 - I like you did not like the "floaty" feeling in the stock suspension. Last summer I finally set the car up correctly with KW Clubports, Porsche Motorsport adjustable sways and Tarret drop links - the alignment and drop were not overly aggressive but it made the car handle phenomenally. It actually transformed the handling. To get some of the float out you may be able to twaek tire pressure a bit - on the track in stock Pirelli Assymetricos I used to run about 42-44 rear and 40-42 front (2-3 psi differential) and it worked really well - those are hot track pressures also.
7 (new topic) - seating - ok at best - they should have offered a better option out of the box - the sport seats are way to wide for my frame and neither of the two seats offer any real support. I'm looking for a nice leather heated Recaro with large side and seat bolsters now.
8 (new topic) - tires - I loved the stock Pirelli Assymetricos - street and track they just were a great tire - drive to the track set pressure and go - that simple. They were a bit noisy but I was with that - they stuck well. Pirelli changed to a P-Zero Rosso and I tired them twice in the rear and they are deplorable. I am now on GT 2 width rims and rubber with Michelin PS's. Love them. The supersports are supposed to be even better but they are slow getting the 18 sizes out (probably due to demand).
9 (new topic) - rims - stay with 18's - there are alot more choices in 19's out there but they take alot out of the ride quality (in my opinion).
Get out and drive it and enjoy it - the short list of items above is quickly out done by the twice daily perma smile!!
T2
05-27-2012, 09:22 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Wow, thanks for all the great responses. Like I said in my post in my opinion it's virtually perfect and has idiosyncrasy's and thank goodness this is cheap stuff.
SSST - I missed that Home Depot/Cruise switch tip. I will look for that. And, based on your post and others I bought the UMW flash/Boost spring with datalogger. Haven't put it in yet. Just put new wheels on yesterday. Brake/clutch done already. I will look into the motor mounts though, I have read that in here numerous times. I guess your right about the short gear - it has to be limited early because it will spool so quick with that much power the engine revs could get ahead of you in a blink of an eye. Effectively you are getting a shorter usable range.
JCB & Doc, Thanks for the tip on the shifter. I think I'm on the right track there. As for the clutch - if it were a much shorter throw I'd like it better soft but it just feels a little bit long and soft. (I never thought I would ever type that)
T2. I put on 18" Fiske's yesterday with Yoko Advans which replaced 19" Gemballa with PS2's. Unbelievable difference with 19 and 22lb wheels in an 18" size. I think I dropped 6lbs. or more in each corner. The handling is simply steller. I went a little bigger than stock with 315/235 setup thanks to SSST and others. Agree about the sport seats but my problem is they are too narrow at the shoulder, I guess they designed to a good compromise.
SSST - I missed that Home Depot/Cruise switch tip. I will look for that. And, based on your post and others I bought the UMW flash/Boost spring with datalogger. Haven't put it in yet. Just put new wheels on yesterday. Brake/clutch done already. I will look into the motor mounts though, I have read that in here numerous times. I guess your right about the short gear - it has to be limited early because it will spool so quick with that much power the engine revs could get ahead of you in a blink of an eye. Effectively you are getting a shorter usable range.
JCB & Doc, Thanks for the tip on the shifter. I think I'm on the right track there. As for the clutch - if it were a much shorter throw I'd like it better soft but it just feels a little bit long and soft. (I never thought I would ever type that)
T2. I put on 18" Fiske's yesterday with Yoko Advans which replaced 19" Gemballa with PS2's. Unbelievable difference with 19 and 22lb wheels in an 18" size. I think I dropped 6lbs. or more in each corner. The handling is simply steller. I went a little bigger than stock with 315/235 setup thanks to SSST and others. Agree about the sport seats but my problem is they are too narrow at the shoulder, I guess they designed to a good compromise.
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05-27-2012, 11:21 AM
#8
RL Community Team
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PCNA told me that there is no programmed "early limiter" in 1st gear. They said that the tach can't physically keep up with the actual crank speed (RPM) when the car is accelerated at WOT in 1st gear. The limiter is looking at the crank RPM, not the tach RPM, so when the limiter is actually reached at the crank, the tach is indicating somewhere around 6000 RPM.
05-27-2012, 11:47 AM
#9
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I think Dock is right. You can easily run it up to the redline at a more leisurely pace. Also, with Kevin's data logger, you can see it run up to the redline in 1st when you play back your runs.
It gets there in a hurry at WOT though. When I see the needle hit 6 I start my shift. By the time I get my foot off the gas and clutch in, I'm in the mid 6's on the needle and the data logger shows me in the upper 6's.
It gets there in a hurry at WOT though. When I see the needle hit 6 I start my shift. By the time I get my foot off the gas and clutch in, I'm in the mid 6's on the needle and the data logger shows me in the upper 6's.
05-27-2012, 02:24 PM
#10
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Well, I can't respond to your TT observations just yet. I just purchased my '03 996 TT and won't drive it home until next week. But I will second the observation concerning the Michellin Pilot Super Sports.
I have them on my Carrera S and they are absolutely wonderful. I had the Pirelli P-Zeros which I thought gripped well, but the Michellins are far superior on the track and road. They do not hunt the way the P-Zero did and are wearing much better!!
I am also attaching a picture of the TT I bought so Dock can see that I have learned how to post normal sized pictures!! Thanks again Dock for the tip!
I have them on my Carrera S and they are absolutely wonderful. I had the Pirelli P-Zeros which I thought gripped well, but the Michellins are far superior on the track and road. They do not hunt the way the P-Zero did and are wearing much better!!
I am also attaching a picture of the TT I bought so Dock can see that I have learned how to post normal sized pictures!! Thanks again Dock for the tip!
