jayzbird

Not quite the same comparison as asked , but I can say from recent experience that a stock 2011 997 Turbo S is faster than my lightly modified (ECU) X-50. He pulled away from me on the longer straights at a recent track day. No big surprise here, much as I would have liked to see a different outcome based on the bench racing results in this thread

SimonK

997 Turbos S? 530bhp and PDK? Bigger displacement engine. Different animal altogether. Of course he did. This car is really fast out of the box. No one can shift as fast as PDK. You lose 0.3 seconds per every shift. Additionally, his turbo stays on boost whilst yours dips on the shift. Let’s get a bit more "scientific"; how far did he pull before the braking zone? 5, 10, 20, or more car lengths? Did you feel like you were totally blown away or did he slowly pull away from you? Also, did you ask him if he has a “slight” tune – flash? Can’t really compare apples and oranges.

ChristianR

stock 996tt/s vs stock 997tt, 997tt all day long, been there done that.

darth g-f

Thanks everyone for your input.

My conclusion is that the 997 is a better car. More modern, nicer interior.

But I just asked for a PPI on a X50 as I really am only interested in performance and don't really care for a better interior as the 996's already miles ahead of my previous cars (my last two cars are a Lotus Elise and Caterham 7).

I figured a well driven X50 will give the 997tt a run for its money and if the X50 is modified, all bets are off. In the end, the better looks and more modern turbos/technology don't justify the extra 30k$ I had to pay to get the 997tt over a 996tt.

SimonK

Smart choice. You put 10k into x50; flash, exhaust, pss10's, adjustable sways and it will take a very special 997tt to keep up.

Hoosier_Daddy

... unless the 997TT owner has also invested 10k in his car. Then it'll just take any old 997TT.

Every student I've had with a 997TT at the track has spent big on mods and the cars were insane.

SimonK

Yes but they invested far more in purchasing 997tt, so that's a non starter.

If students invest big $$$ in 997tt for the track, they are idiots. They should just get GT3/RS instead to begin with.

Everyone knows if ultimate mods come into play, 996tt is the way to go. It simply doesn't make sense to start with more expensive platform for same ultimate net result.

Hoosier_Daddy

Seriously??? Idiots???

Going by your logic everyone should start out in a Mazda. Who is to say what a person's budget should or shouldn't be or what car they should or should buy/modify?

SimonK

Oh no mate I have no energy for arguments anymore. You are an instructor? Seriously? Jesus it seems everyone can call themselves one nowadays!

Hoosier_Daddy

SimonK

Ps. And by the way, yes - everyone should start in a Mazda. Good point you make there.

SimonK

The grand finale;

Bringing the science into debate...

I was sitting on the plane the other day thinking about this topic and I remembered that years ago I was already bashing my head against the wall in a similar 996tt versus 997tt debate. So went looking back and here are some actual facts that still stand;

Nurburgring/Nordschleife times for stock 996tt versus 997.1tt (2000/2007, tested by sport auto, same driver; Horst von Saurma) were: 7.56 for the 996tt and 7.54 for the 997tt. STOCK 996TT NOT (S). And this is no average 2.4 mile race track but over 12.9 miles of a high speed race track where bhp advantage really counts! It is where 997tt with 60 bhp advantage and variable turbines and “redesigned everything” should have murdered the 996tt. Wait a minute only 2 seconds? (this is what I was saying about the techno babble versus the real world) This would relate to 997tt being 0.37 seconds faster on an average racetrack lap-time-wise than the STOCK 996tt.

Now to the OP; I told you initially that the cars are nearly identical in performance (meaning, there isn’t much between 996tts (X50) and 997tt and that X50 is nearly as fast as 997tt).

I AM SO SORRY, I WAS WRONG!

996tts lapped Nordschleife in 7.51. Granted by the German driver not by auto sport (so the opposition will now come back with; not the same driver, not on the same day, different conditions, bla bla, bla). But the fact is that 996tts lapped Nurburgring faster than the 997.1tt.

There, you go! To your original question; is x50 really as fast as 997tt, the answer is NO, IT IS FASTER!

darth g-f

Thanks SimonK!

I might be alone in my boat, but I do love your style.

Because everyone is an instructor, I too am one. For BMWCCA. I raced F2000 for a season and I've been an instructor for the last 5 or 6 years.

Learning to drive on a GT3 or Turbo is pure nonsense in my opinion. Yes everyone should learn on a Mazda... Miata (or MX5 for SimonK). People look down on those cars but they are great cars to learn driving dynamics and momentum driving. Just my ,02$.

If someone has so much money that he wants to learn with a GT3, good for him. But it is not a good car to learn on. Just like a F1 racers learn on karts, then F1600, then F2000, then StarMazda then Atlantic and so on, student should start with small low hp cars and work their way up.

Good find on the Nurburgring lap times btw...