Is the X50 really as fast as 997TT??
11-05-2011, 10:35 PM
#76
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I agree with the statement that the 996 tt X50 transmission is a weak link. I first had 2nd gear pop out issue and then my 3rd gear broke from the torque load and sticky tires. When they opened the trans, they told me my synchros were in perfect shape-no trans abuse. I just had it rebuilt with 997 GT2 parts (bigger/wider 3rd gear etc and steel synchros). As far as which one is faster, I have no idea. But, I have never been passed by a 997TT or 997 GT2 on the track. I do have Kevin's tune. Therefore, the driver is bigger factor then then the difference between the two cars. If one is faster then the other, it is not by much. Buy the one you like.
11-05-2011, 10:43 PM
#77
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To clarify. I bought my car with 6000 miles. The 2nd gear pop out issue may have been from bad shifts by previous owner. I do not drag race the car. My 3rd gear problem occurred 3000 miles later on a track. The fact that Porsche uses a bigger 3rd gear gear in the 997TT is proof that it is a frequent problem. The shop that rebuilt my trans also confirmed that they have seEn numerous similar failures in the 996 TT.
11-06-2011, 03:42 AM
#78
Burning Brakes
I agree with the statement that the 996 tt X50 transmission is a weak link. I first had 2nd gear pop out issue and then my 3rd gear broke from the torque load and sticky tires. When they opened the trans, they told me my synchros were in perfect shape-no trans abuse. I just had it rebuilt with 997 GT2 parts (bigger/wider 3rd gear etc and steel synchros). As far as which one is faster, I have no idea. But, I have never been passed by a 997TT or 997 GT2 on the track. I do have Kevin's tune. Therefore, the driver is bigger factor then then the difference between the two cars. If one is faster then the other, it is not by much. Buy the one you like.
This is due to;
1. Weight
2. Understeer (softer - more comfortable GT suspension setup from the factory)
11-06-2011, 04:27 AM
#79
Burning Brakes
I see that Kevin already gave some info on the 997 engine changes vs the 996TT one.
Here are the full 997TT engine specs with more details:
Engine, M97/70
General
The engine of the new 911 Turbo, with its 3.6-litre displacement, is a further development based on the 911 Turbo (996). A variable-geometry turbocharger is used for the first time with this engine. This technology permits extremely fast boost pressure build-up with good response characteristics, high torque values even at low engine speeds and over a wide rev range, as well as high maximum power combined with low fuel consumption.
Summary of modifications
• Variable-geometry turbocharger
• Higher power and torque values
• Component reinforcement
• Overboost function in conjunction with the "Sport Chrono Package Turbo" option
• Advanced VarioCam Plus
• Enhanced dry sump lubrication with 9 oil pumps
• Increased cooling performance, including 2-stage oil cooling
• Enhanced charge air cooling
The most important data at a glance:
Displacement 3,600 cm3
Bore 100 mm
Stroke 76.4 mm
Power output 353 kW (480 bhp)
At engine speed 6,000 rpm 1/min
Max. torque 620 Nm
At engine speed 1,950 - 5,000 rpm 1/min
Max. torque (Overboost) 680 Nm
At engine speed 2,100 - 4,000 rpm 1/min
Compression ratio 9.0 : 1
Governed speed 6,750 rpm 1/min (6th gear 6,800 rpm 1/min)
Idle speed 740 +/- 40 rpm 1/min
Crankshaft
A reduction in weight was achieved through a deeper central bore in the crankshaft on the pulley side.
Connecting-rod bearings
"Sputtered bearings" are mounted on the rod side as connecting-rod bearings.
Sputtered bearings are high-performance bearings.
Higher engine output powers require materials with a significantly higher fatigue strength, lower wearing rate, and good corrosion resistance at high temperatures, particularly for the connecting-rod bearings. These complex requirements are met by means of cathode sputtering. Micro-particles are ejected from a donor material in a high vacuum. These particles are applied uniformly to the part which is to be coated using electromagnetic fields. These magnetron layers are characterised by extremely fine distribution of the individual structural constituents. The basis is the already known three-component bearing. The basic design has been preserved. The plated lining at risk of fatigue has been replaced by a sputtered lining.
Information
Two lugs are provided for the twist lock in order to ensure that the sputtered bearings are mounted on the rod side. In addition, the identification "Sputter" is provided on the rear of the bearing.
Connecting rods
The connecting rods have been left practically unchanged, apart from the fact that two grooves have been incorporated on the rod side for the sputtered bearing.
Pistons
The pistons are realised in a symmetrical design; arrows are provided on the piston crown to indicate the installation position. When installing the pistons, it must be ensured that these arrows point in driving direction.
Piston rings
Three-part rail rings are used as oil scraper rings on the new 911 Turbo in order to reduce the "blow by" gases and therefore also further reduce oil consumption. These very thin rings are able to adapt themselves optimally to the cylinder shape, thereby optimising sealing quality.
Cylinder base seal
A three-part cylinder base seal is used here in order to improve the sealing quality between the crankcase and the cylinder housing. The seal of the new 911 Turbo is 0.3 mm thicker than the seal used in the past.
Cylinder housing
The cylinder housing and cylinder sleeves have been shortened by 0.3 mm in order to maintain the same overall cylinder height and compression ratio.
Valve drive
The new 911 Turbo uses a rotary-vane actuator, familiar from the 911 Carrera, for continuous adjustment of the intake camshaft. The adjustment range of the actuator is 40° crank angle.
The small valve lift was increased from 3.0 mm to 3.6 mm in order to make more efficient use of the advantages of VarioCam Plus with continuous camshaft adjustment and a larger adjustment range compared with the 911 Turbo (996) with respect to consumption, output and exhaust emissions. The large valve lift was left at 10.0 mm.
Valve springs
The exhaust backpressure is also increased as a result of the increase in the boost pressure in order to achieve higher torque and power output in the middle rev range. The valve spring assembly has been modified in order to ensure that the exhaust valves close reliably.
This was achieved by a progressive design without increasing the friction losses or producing excessive pressure at the contact point between the cam and tappet.
Flat-base tappets
The shape of the hydraulic tappets on the exhaust side has been optimised by providing them with a reinforced base while leaving the overall weight unchanged in order to guarantee the service life of the tappets.
Camshafts
The timing and therefore also the camshafts have been adjusted for the new engine.
Timing in retarded setting at 1 mm valve lift and zero play:
Intake opens, large stroke 20° before TDC
Intake closes, large stroke 50° after BDC
Intake opens, small stroke 30° after TDC
Intake closes, small stroke 30° before BDC
Exhaust opens 40° before BDC
Exhaust closes 9° before TDC
Chain drive
The timing chains have been lengthened by two chain links compared with the predecessor engine in order to compensate for the thermal expansion of the engine. As a result, it was also necessary to adapt the guide rails and chain tensioners.
Vacuum pump
Like the current 911 generation, the new 911 Turbo also has a mechanically driven vacuum pump that uses rotary vane technology. This replaces the conventional sucking jet pump to provide the vacuum for the brake booster and for activating various switching valves. It is located on the cylinder head of cylinder bank 1 - 3 and is driven by the corresponding exhaust camshaft.
Oil supply
The oil supply of the new 911 Turbo is provided by means of the familiar and proven dry sump lubrication. An additional oil extraction pump is installed in the front area of the crankcase since extreme deceleration values can be achieved with this vehicle, with the result that oil collects in this area.
Cooling
In order to take into account the higher cooling requirement of the engine oil on the new 911 Turbo, the waste heat is now dissipated into the coolant by means of two oil-water heat exchangers instead of one (996 Turbo). As a result, it was possible to increase the cooling performance by more than 15 %. The second heat exchanger is located in the return line to the oil tank. This arrangement means that the oil supply line is not loaded with the increased resistance from the heat exchanger, and ensures that the engine is adequately supplied with oil. In addition, heat transfer to the coolant and therefore also the cooling performance is increased since the temperature in the return line is higher than in the oil pressure line. Adapted routing of the coolant lines ensures optimum distribution to the heat exchangers and other fluid-cooled components.
The heat from the coolant is dissipated to the environment by means of side radiator modules located on the left and right in front of the front wheels in each case, as well as by means of a centre radiator in the front end.
During aerodynamic development of the front end, particular attention was paid to increasing the cooling air throughput in order to permit dissipation of the additional heat produced by the increased engine power while keeping the radiator dimensions unchanged.
On the new 911 Turbo, the bearing housings of the turbochargers are additionally cooled with coolant for the first time. This takes place by means of a separate electrically operated pump which is mounted on the engine behind the secondary air pump, (see illustration 1_07_07, legend -P- ). This increases coolant throughput at low engine speeds in accordance with the cooling requirement, and also permits efficient cooling of the highly loaded turbochargers when the engine is stopped after the vehicle has been driven with high power demands.
Here are the full 997TT engine specs with more details:
Engine, M97/70
General
The engine of the new 911 Turbo, with its 3.6-litre displacement, is a further development based on the 911 Turbo (996). A variable-geometry turbocharger is used for the first time with this engine. This technology permits extremely fast boost pressure build-up with good response characteristics, high torque values even at low engine speeds and over a wide rev range, as well as high maximum power combined with low fuel consumption.
Summary of modifications
• Variable-geometry turbocharger
• Higher power and torque values
• Component reinforcement
• Overboost function in conjunction with the "Sport Chrono Package Turbo" option
• Advanced VarioCam Plus
• Enhanced dry sump lubrication with 9 oil pumps
• Increased cooling performance, including 2-stage oil cooling
• Enhanced charge air cooling
The most important data at a glance:
Displacement 3,600 cm3
Bore 100 mm
Stroke 76.4 mm
Power output 353 kW (480 bhp)
At engine speed 6,000 rpm 1/min
Max. torque 620 Nm
At engine speed 1,950 - 5,000 rpm 1/min
Max. torque (Overboost) 680 Nm
At engine speed 2,100 - 4,000 rpm 1/min
Compression ratio 9.0 : 1
Governed speed 6,750 rpm 1/min (6th gear 6,800 rpm 1/min)
Idle speed 740 +/- 40 rpm 1/min
Crankshaft
A reduction in weight was achieved through a deeper central bore in the crankshaft on the pulley side.
Connecting-rod bearings
"Sputtered bearings" are mounted on the rod side as connecting-rod bearings.
Sputtered bearings are high-performance bearings.
Higher engine output powers require materials with a significantly higher fatigue strength, lower wearing rate, and good corrosion resistance at high temperatures, particularly for the connecting-rod bearings. These complex requirements are met by means of cathode sputtering. Micro-particles are ejected from a donor material in a high vacuum. These particles are applied uniformly to the part which is to be coated using electromagnetic fields. These magnetron layers are characterised by extremely fine distribution of the individual structural constituents. The basis is the already known three-component bearing. The basic design has been preserved. The plated lining at risk of fatigue has been replaced by a sputtered lining.
Information
Two lugs are provided for the twist lock in order to ensure that the sputtered bearings are mounted on the rod side. In addition, the identification "Sputter" is provided on the rear of the bearing.
Connecting rods
The connecting rods have been left practically unchanged, apart from the fact that two grooves have been incorporated on the rod side for the sputtered bearing.
Pistons
The pistons are realised in a symmetrical design; arrows are provided on the piston crown to indicate the installation position. When installing the pistons, it must be ensured that these arrows point in driving direction.
Piston rings
Three-part rail rings are used as oil scraper rings on the new 911 Turbo in order to reduce the "blow by" gases and therefore also further reduce oil consumption. These very thin rings are able to adapt themselves optimally to the cylinder shape, thereby optimising sealing quality.
Cylinder base seal
A three-part cylinder base seal is used here in order to improve the sealing quality between the crankcase and the cylinder housing. The seal of the new 911 Turbo is 0.3 mm thicker than the seal used in the past.
Cylinder housing
The cylinder housing and cylinder sleeves have been shortened by 0.3 mm in order to maintain the same overall cylinder height and compression ratio.
Valve drive
The new 911 Turbo uses a rotary-vane actuator, familiar from the 911 Carrera, for continuous adjustment of the intake camshaft. The adjustment range of the actuator is 40° crank angle.
The small valve lift was increased from 3.0 mm to 3.6 mm in order to make more efficient use of the advantages of VarioCam Plus with continuous camshaft adjustment and a larger adjustment range compared with the 911 Turbo (996) with respect to consumption, output and exhaust emissions. The large valve lift was left at 10.0 mm.
Valve springs
The exhaust backpressure is also increased as a result of the increase in the boost pressure in order to achieve higher torque and power output in the middle rev range. The valve spring assembly has been modified in order to ensure that the exhaust valves close reliably.
This was achieved by a progressive design without increasing the friction losses or producing excessive pressure at the contact point between the cam and tappet.
Flat-base tappets
The shape of the hydraulic tappets on the exhaust side has been optimised by providing them with a reinforced base while leaving the overall weight unchanged in order to guarantee the service life of the tappets.
Camshafts
The timing and therefore also the camshafts have been adjusted for the new engine.
Timing in retarded setting at 1 mm valve lift and zero play:
Intake opens, large stroke 20° before TDC
Intake closes, large stroke 50° after BDC
Intake opens, small stroke 30° after TDC
Intake closes, small stroke 30° before BDC
Exhaust opens 40° before BDC
Exhaust closes 9° before TDC
Chain drive
The timing chains have been lengthened by two chain links compared with the predecessor engine in order to compensate for the thermal expansion of the engine. As a result, it was also necessary to adapt the guide rails and chain tensioners.
Vacuum pump
Like the current 911 generation, the new 911 Turbo also has a mechanically driven vacuum pump that uses rotary vane technology. This replaces the conventional sucking jet pump to provide the vacuum for the brake booster and for activating various switching valves. It is located on the cylinder head of cylinder bank 1 - 3 and is driven by the corresponding exhaust camshaft.
Oil supply
The oil supply of the new 911 Turbo is provided by means of the familiar and proven dry sump lubrication. An additional oil extraction pump is installed in the front area of the crankcase since extreme deceleration values can be achieved with this vehicle, with the result that oil collects in this area.
Cooling
In order to take into account the higher cooling requirement of the engine oil on the new 911 Turbo, the waste heat is now dissipated into the coolant by means of two oil-water heat exchangers instead of one (996 Turbo). As a result, it was possible to increase the cooling performance by more than 15 %. The second heat exchanger is located in the return line to the oil tank. This arrangement means that the oil supply line is not loaded with the increased resistance from the heat exchanger, and ensures that the engine is adequately supplied with oil. In addition, heat transfer to the coolant and therefore also the cooling performance is increased since the temperature in the return line is higher than in the oil pressure line. Adapted routing of the coolant lines ensures optimum distribution to the heat exchangers and other fluid-cooled components.
The heat from the coolant is dissipated to the environment by means of side radiator modules located on the left and right in front of the front wheels in each case, as well as by means of a centre radiator in the front end.
During aerodynamic development of the front end, particular attention was paid to increasing the cooling air throughput in order to permit dissipation of the additional heat produced by the increased engine power while keeping the radiator dimensions unchanged.
On the new 911 Turbo, the bearing housings of the turbochargers are additionally cooled with coolant for the first time. This takes place by means of a separate electrically operated pump which is mounted on the engine behind the secondary air pump, (see illustration 1_07_07, legend -P- ). This increases coolant throughput at low engine speeds in accordance with the cooling requirement, and also permits efficient cooling of the highly loaded turbochargers when the engine is stopped after the vehicle has been driven with high power demands.
And I do understand if someone buys a new 997tt, pays small house money for it, it has to defend it to death, so would I.
Having said that, for me a new engine is when you change the crank (not just make it lighter), when you change the size of bores and pistons (usually increase), change the head, that’s what I consider an engine redesign (997.2, 991). What 997tt has is the same bloody engine with some minor improvements. These are; VTG, better fuelling and improved headwork! THE END! (I can slap on better cooling myself – that does not mean I have a brand new engine!) I can change my manufacturing processes - that does not mean I have a brand new engine! However, if I do, I can then talk about magnetic coating! Marketing!
1. IT IS NOT A NEW ENGINE!
2. NO MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS!
And in the real world they amount to near ZERO performance gain comparing to 996tt S.
I cannot nail it into foreheads of some people here clearer than this!
But I understand that when what you say is overwhelmed by many, you must look upon yourself for errors. So here it is guys (Y65MPH, Kevin and JG 996T), I sincerely apologise for my misguided writings; “yes 997tt has a far superior engine to the 996tt. It is a masterpiece in its own right. The heart of the engine is that of a lion whilst 996tt is that of a goat. 996tt is an underdog now and it loses to 997tt in every respect, most notably on the track where I am constantly beaten by grinning 997tt drivers. 997tt is far superior in every aspect of driving. It offers superb connection to the driver which surpasses that of a 996tt. Finally, the 996tt is pig ugly and 997tt is a sculpture of art which will go down in history as the prettiest piece of steel and aluminium ever produced”.
THE 996TT WAS A GREAT CAR BUT SADLY 997TT CAME ALONG AND BLEW IT INTO OBLIVION”
996TT, RIP.
Last edited by SimonK; 11-06-2011 at 05:00 AM.
11-06-2011, 08:41 AM
#80
Well now, that went well!~
Mike
Mike
!["02996ttx50's Avatar](data:image/svg+xml;utf8,<svg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 50 50'><circle class='avatar-circle-default' fill='%23759d7b' cx='25px' cy='25px' r='20px'></circle><text class='avatar-text-default' x='49%' y='53%' fill='white' text-anchor='middle' alignment-baseline='middle'>"</text></svg>)
11-08-2011, 05:11 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Yes, I'm beating a dead horse...
Your solid facts compare the "empty weight" of a 996 turbo with the "curb weight" of a 997 turbo.
Curb weight of 997 turbo = 3,494 lbs (as you note above).
Curb weight of 996 turbo = 3,505 lbs (which you fail to note above).
6 turbo is 11 pounds heavier than 7 turbo - curb weight to curb weight.
The following quote is from the 997.1 Turbo brochure:
"More power, less weight.
While the engine’s boxer layout and 3.6-liter displacement remain
unchanged, its power has improved markedly. It delivers
480 horsepower at 6000 rpm, and 460 lb.-ft. of torque at just
1950 rpm, with no reduction in torque up to 5000 rpm.
Even more thrilling, this increased power is delivered in a lighter
package. With its aluminum doors and trunk lid, the new 911 Turbo
is 11 pounds lighter than its predecessor, giving it a power-toweight
ratio of 7.28 lbs./hp. With a standard manual gearbox,
the new 911 Turbo reaches 60 mph in just 3.7 seconds.
Equipped with the latest evolution of the Tiptronic S transmission,
the car is actually 0.3 seconds quicker. It can reach the 124 mph
(200 km/h) benchmark in just 12.8 seconds, or 12.2 seconds
with Tiptronic S."
(all figure are from copies of Porsche brochures, which are available at http://coochas.com/brochures/Resourc...7_turbo_us.pdf).
Even with x50 option, the 6 is down on horsepower.
So, in the end, as Porsche says, its "more power less weight" for the 997 turbo, which should answer the OPs question.
Curb weight of 997 turbo = 3,494 lbs (as you note above).
Curb weight of 996 turbo = 3,505 lbs (which you fail to note above).
6 turbo is 11 pounds heavier than 7 turbo - curb weight to curb weight.
The following quote is from the 997.1 Turbo brochure:
"More power, less weight.
While the engine’s boxer layout and 3.6-liter displacement remain
unchanged, its power has improved markedly. It delivers
480 horsepower at 6000 rpm, and 460 lb.-ft. of torque at just
1950 rpm, with no reduction in torque up to 5000 rpm.
Even more thrilling, this increased power is delivered in a lighter
package. With its aluminum doors and trunk lid, the new 911 Turbo
is 11 pounds lighter than its predecessor, giving it a power-toweight
ratio of 7.28 lbs./hp. With a standard manual gearbox,
the new 911 Turbo reaches 60 mph in just 3.7 seconds.
Equipped with the latest evolution of the Tiptronic S transmission,
the car is actually 0.3 seconds quicker. It can reach the 124 mph
(200 km/h) benchmark in just 12.8 seconds, or 12.2 seconds
with Tiptronic S."
(all figure are from copies of Porsche brochures, which are available at http://coochas.com/brochures/Resourc...7_turbo_us.pdf).
Even with x50 option, the 6 is down on horsepower.
So, in the end, as Porsche says, its "more power less weight" for the 997 turbo, which should answer the OPs question.
11-08-2011, 06:27 PM
#84
Burning Brakes
Yes, I'm beating a dead horse...
Your solid facts compare the "empty weight" of a 996 turbo with the "curb weight" of a 997 turbo.
Curb weight of 997 turbo = 3,494 lbs (as you note above).
Curb weight of 996 turbo = 3,505 lbs (which you fail to note above).
6 turbo is 11 pounds heavier than 7 turbo - curb weight to curb weight.
The following quote is from the 997.1 Turbo brochure:
"More power, less weight.
While the engine’s boxer layout and 3.6-liter displacement remain
unchanged, its power has improved markedly. It delivers
480 horsepower at 6000 rpm, and 460 lb.-ft. of torque at just
1950 rpm, with no reduction in torque up to 5000 rpm.
Even more thrilling, this increased power is delivered in a lighter
package. With its aluminum doors and trunk lid, the new 911 Turbo
is 11 pounds lighter than its predecessor, giving it a power-toweight
ratio of 7.28 lbs./hp. With a standard manual gearbox,
the new 911 Turbo reaches 60 mph in just 3.7 seconds.
Equipped with the latest evolution of the Tiptronic S transmission,
the car is actually 0.3 seconds quicker. It can reach the 124 mph
(200 km/h) benchmark in just 12.8 seconds, or 12.2 seconds
with Tiptronic S."
(all figure are from copies of Porsche brochures, which are available at http://coochas.com/brochures/Resourc...7_turbo_us.pdf).
Even with x50 option, the 6 is down on horsepower.
So, in the end, as Porsche says, its "more power less weight" for the 997 turbo, which should answer the OPs question.
Your solid facts compare the "empty weight" of a 996 turbo with the "curb weight" of a 997 turbo.
Curb weight of 997 turbo = 3,494 lbs (as you note above).
Curb weight of 996 turbo = 3,505 lbs (which you fail to note above).
6 turbo is 11 pounds heavier than 7 turbo - curb weight to curb weight.
The following quote is from the 997.1 Turbo brochure:
"More power, less weight.
While the engine’s boxer layout and 3.6-liter displacement remain
unchanged, its power has improved markedly. It delivers
480 horsepower at 6000 rpm, and 460 lb.-ft. of torque at just
1950 rpm, with no reduction in torque up to 5000 rpm.
Even more thrilling, this increased power is delivered in a lighter
package. With its aluminum doors and trunk lid, the new 911 Turbo
is 11 pounds lighter than its predecessor, giving it a power-toweight
ratio of 7.28 lbs./hp. With a standard manual gearbox,
the new 911 Turbo reaches 60 mph in just 3.7 seconds.
Equipped with the latest evolution of the Tiptronic S transmission,
the car is actually 0.3 seconds quicker. It can reach the 124 mph
(200 km/h) benchmark in just 12.8 seconds, or 12.2 seconds
with Tiptronic S."
(all figure are from copies of Porsche brochures, which are available at http://coochas.com/brochures/Resourc...7_turbo_us.pdf).
Even with x50 option, the 6 is down on horsepower.
So, in the end, as Porsche says, its "more power less weight" for the 997 turbo, which should answer the OPs question.
Curb weight (or kerb weight as we call it in England, also known as empty weight) is the same!
Car with fluids no driver.
It is not gross weight or new EU spec weight.
Curb Weight = Weight of Car with standard accessories, full fluids, no driver
Then there is a gross weight (I don't think I need to explain what gross is do I)? I never know with you perhaps I do?
And
EU Weight = Weight of Car with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver and 7 kg cargo.
I suggest you weigh a 997tt and 996tt on scales. I see it every time we go racing on drive on scales. Until you do please stop misleading the OP.
11-08-2011, 10:57 PM
#85
I was in a similar boat up until few weeks ago didn't know if i wanted a 996 TT or a 997 TT.
My 996 TT non X50 test drive impression were:
Pros:
a)- Price though attractive but a mint one with < 15K miles are still commanding close to mid 50's.
b)- Reliability
Cons:
a)- The Power of the stock TT was very un-impressive. Infact with in 5 minutes i knew the car wasn't for me.
b)- The interior seems pretty tight and the dash quality was all plastic.
c)- I drove the car with all Carbon Fiber and since the interior is so cramped, i thought the CF was way too much for the space the car has. This is one car that i would rather not have CF in it
d)- The stock handling was pretty un-impressive too.
e)- The seating position/feel was very important to me and even though i had asked several members about the feel ( sitting on or in the seats ) but i could never get a concrete answer. Well, you definately sit ON the seat and not IN the seat.
996 TT-S:
However, i also got to sit in a TTS which i loved it. The all leather interior was pretty impressive and for some reason, the space didn't feel as cramped either. The wheels were very nice and the stance was awesome.
Now to 997 TT:
For several months i kept looking for a 996 TTS but couldn't find one reasonably priced as they were all asking mid to high 60's. Since the 997 TT's were coming down in prices, low to mid 80's, i decided to go ahead and test drive one
Well to start with, the car seems bit wider and sits lower than a 996 TT thus giving it an aggressive stance.
The interior is way too nice,all leather. The dash lay out is also much better and to my excitement, you definately sit IN the seat
Took the car out for a spin and once again with in 5 minutes and with in the first three gears, i knew, that was it.
997 TT price was a big reluctance for me as well but i knew the 996 TT i wanted ( < 20K miles, sport seats, PCCB's, Nav, painted sport seat backs, white face guages, Exhaust,PSS9's and Tune would set me back close to 70 before taxes. The down fall of this car would have been the re-sale. I would have been lucky to even get high 40's for this car in a year or two.
Cosidering all that i decided to go ahead and buy a 997 TT which i just did.
'07 TT White/black,17K miles, White deviating stitching on the dash,seats and doors, White painted center console ( no CF for me), PCCB's, Sport adaptive seats with white painted seat backs, special order OEM wheels, Tubi exhaust etc etc for mid 80's.
Even though the power is X50 is pretty much in the same territory but the power delivery is way too different in a 997 TT.
I am by no means trying to de-grade the 996 TT but the 997 TT is quite a bit better in pretty much every way.
My 996 TT non X50 test drive impression were:
Pros:
a)- Price though attractive but a mint one with < 15K miles are still commanding close to mid 50's.
b)- Reliability
Cons:
a)- The Power of the stock TT was very un-impressive. Infact with in 5 minutes i knew the car wasn't for me.
b)- The interior seems pretty tight and the dash quality was all plastic.
c)- I drove the car with all Carbon Fiber and since the interior is so cramped, i thought the CF was way too much for the space the car has. This is one car that i would rather not have CF in it
d)- The stock handling was pretty un-impressive too.
e)- The seating position/feel was very important to me and even though i had asked several members about the feel ( sitting on or in the seats ) but i could never get a concrete answer. Well, you definately sit ON the seat and not IN the seat.
996 TT-S:
However, i also got to sit in a TTS which i loved it. The all leather interior was pretty impressive and for some reason, the space didn't feel as cramped either. The wheels were very nice and the stance was awesome.
Now to 997 TT:
For several months i kept looking for a 996 TTS but couldn't find one reasonably priced as they were all asking mid to high 60's. Since the 997 TT's were coming down in prices, low to mid 80's, i decided to go ahead and test drive one
Well to start with, the car seems bit wider and sits lower than a 996 TT thus giving it an aggressive stance.
The interior is way too nice,all leather. The dash lay out is also much better and to my excitement, you definately sit IN the seat
Took the car out for a spin and once again with in 5 minutes and with in the first three gears, i knew, that was it.
997 TT price was a big reluctance for me as well but i knew the 996 TT i wanted ( < 20K miles, sport seats, PCCB's, Nav, painted sport seat backs, white face guages, Exhaust,PSS9's and Tune would set me back close to 70 before taxes. The down fall of this car would have been the re-sale. I would have been lucky to even get high 40's for this car in a year or two.
Cosidering all that i decided to go ahead and buy a 997 TT which i just did.
'07 TT White/black,17K miles, White deviating stitching on the dash,seats and doors, White painted center console ( no CF for me), PCCB's, Sport adaptive seats with white painted seat backs, special order OEM wheels, Tubi exhaust etc etc for mid 80's.
Even though the power is X50 is pretty much in the same territory but the power delivery is way too different in a 997 TT.
I am by no means trying to de-grade the 996 TT but the 997 TT is quite a bit better in pretty much every way.
11-09-2011, 01:00 AM
#86
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C2, I'm glad that you were able to find a new car.
I read that you had a flat, did you use the stud wheel extenders when you dismounted the wheel?
What are the odds that you chipped your rotor vs it being previous chipped?
I read that you had a flat, did you use the stud wheel extenders when you dismounted the wheel?
What are the odds that you chipped your rotor vs it being previous chipped?
11-09-2011, 08:26 AM
#87
From my experience and what i have read, the rotors are usually chipped when mounting the wheels not taking them off. Yes we did use the wheel mounting guide pins.
Knopf Porsche of Allentown, PA did the PPI, they missed the peeling clear coat off the wheels too. It really is no big deal but i am upset with those monkeys since i had asked them specifically to look at the brakes and the wheels for me.
What are the odds of the damaged area being behind the caliper when the monkey inspected the rotor ? He could have easily forgotten to rotate the rotor, couldn't he ?
Why is proof of burden is always on the customer ? I talked to my service tech and was told he has done enough where he doesn't need those guide pins !
Any way, next time either i am going to do a PPI myself or else iam there with the tech doing the PPI ?
This is my second experience with a Porsche dealer messing up a PPI so i would say they have no clue when it comes to doing a PPI.
Regardless, it's a beautiful car and i am very happy with it.
Thanks for all your help though.
Yasir
Last edited by C2 Turbo; 11-09-2011 at 12:21 PM.
11-09-2011, 10:28 AM
#88
C2, beatiful car!
I've been running the Gen 1 PCCB on my '03 original equipment, no chips or marks. I'm convinced the sort of damage you have happens at tire stores. You and I may be fussy about where we take it and who touches it but Joe Blow may have took it to the same place that does his Suburban on a busy day.
I've been running the Gen 1 PCCB on my '03 original equipment, no chips or marks. I'm convinced the sort of damage you have happens at tire stores. You and I may be fussy about where we take it and who touches it but Joe Blow may have took it to the same place that does his Suburban on a busy day.
11-13-2011, 07:09 PM
#89
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HI Guys
I jumped from my 04 996 tt tuned tip with exhaust to a 08 997 tt tuned stick with exhaust yesterday.
The power differance and speed diferance is there but on the roads insignificant. The 997 has less lag and a more precise steering.
997 had pzero rossos standard size I have MPS2 in gt2 sizes
I did find that I could not use all the power in 2nd and 3rd in the 997 where I only find that in 2nd in my 996. This would be down to the shorter gears in the 997 that I did like, thought it suited the engine slightly better.
I also played against a 997tt tuned tip with my 996 tt tuned with exhaust and there is basicly no diferance in pace.
What I will say about the 997 is that they are much more refined and were alot nicer to drive as far as comfort and I would swap mine in a second.
What I would then say is once dollars come into play the 996 smashes the 997
But untill dollars are involved the 997 wins at everything
I jumped from my 04 996 tt tuned tip with exhaust to a 08 997 tt tuned stick with exhaust yesterday.
The power differance and speed diferance is there but on the roads insignificant. The 997 has less lag and a more precise steering.
997 had pzero rossos standard size I have MPS2 in gt2 sizes
I did find that I could not use all the power in 2nd and 3rd in the 997 where I only find that in 2nd in my 996. This would be down to the shorter gears in the 997 that I did like, thought it suited the engine slightly better.
I also played against a 997tt tuned tip with my 996 tt tuned with exhaust and there is basicly no diferance in pace.
What I will say about the 997 is that they are much more refined and were alot nicer to drive as far as comfort and I would swap mine in a second.
What I would then say is once dollars come into play the 996 smashes the 997
But untill dollars are involved the 997 wins at everything
11-14-2011, 11:01 AM
#90
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C2 not sure what 996tt you drove, but the standard interior as I know it is leather, including the dash, not much plastic in the 996tt. The ground clearence of the 997 is 4.2" (coupe) vs the 996tt which is 4.3/ Hardly anything visual to the eye. What you are seeing is the side skirt appearence difference. If it is really different then changes were made tot he suspension.