Stock Intake or AfterMarket (Fabspeed)
02-01-2011, 08:37 PM
#31
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And BTW, there is no way that the exhaust fan will supply enough CFM to evac/displace all the hot air and pump cool air into the flat panel intake. It just won't happen. At idle the engine will be pulling hot air from wherever it can get it at the lowest amount of static pressure. And that will be the hot air rising from the engine and exhaust.
On another well known case, many folks have removed and cut apart there airbox on the 993TT. The engine would ingest the air from the engine compartment AND hot air that has passed thru the IC. Power was restored when the airbox was returned back to stock along with the curved intake duct which provided cool intake air..
FYI If one want to understand what there engine is doing, datalog your intake air temps and your CFM, timing and duty cycle and actual engine load. It doesn't require a dyno to quickly see what is happening.
On another well known case, many folks have removed and cut apart there airbox on the 993TT. The engine would ingest the air from the engine compartment AND hot air that has passed thru the IC. Power was restored when the airbox was returned back to stock along with the curved intake duct which provided cool intake air..
FYI If one want to understand what there engine is doing, datalog your intake air temps and your CFM, timing and duty cycle and actual engine load. It doesn't require a dyno to quickly see what is happening.
Last edited by Kevin; 02-01-2011 at 09:30 PM.
02-01-2011, 09:16 PM
#32
Joe, I may get banned for this, and I don't care... Every single part developed or produced, or "sold" by your company has fallen short of expectations... That airbox is GARBAGE. Heat soak is a serious issue, and the fact that the box is exposed to extreme under hatch temps tells the story. You want to send me one of those boxes to test, in July, at VIR, for FOUR 30 minute sessions? Send it and I'll pay for it, and THEN I'll post the results for all to see on YOUTUBE and anywhere else they'll have me...
Just say the word. But I already know what the results will be with that wonderful "vivid" unit. Heat soak is an "endurance issue". Have you run this "box" at s 6500 RPM for 30 minutes? Show me, because that's where my car lives...
Mike
Just say the word. But I already know what the results will be with that wonderful "vivid" unit. Heat soak is an "endurance issue". Have you run this "box" at s 6500 RPM for 30 minutes? Show me, because that's where my car lives...
Mike
This is Joe Fabiani at Fabspeed Motorsport USA
Let me give you a little background on how Fabspeed USA designed and DYNO developed our Porsche 996TT high performance air intake system and how we design other air intake systems.
There are detailed VIDEO explanations along with verified actual DYNO data that supports all of our air intake systems. In additional if the parts does not make power we do not sell or release it regardless of sales potential.
Porsche seals their airboxes and sizes the actual openings a certain cars to reduce induction sound or intake roar and to make the cars quiet and to determine maximum intake flow. These are engineering parameters.
I noticed back in 2001 that German tuners/engine builders (9FF, Sportec and etc) and other USA engine builders tuners were using an airsaw to CUT OPEN the entire top face of the stock OEM Porsche factory airbox in order to make more power and sports car sound. The reciprocating saw irreversibly destroys the factory OEM airbox lid.
Since we have a inhouse Dyno and I have been designing products for 996TT cars since 1999 I had the opportunity to test OPEN airbox designs and evaluate different open designs. I used a DYNO with an automated weather station so there were NO bogus correction factors nor games in our testing.
Ultimately Fabspeed Motorsport designed and released a fully DYNO and track tested 996TT high performance air intake system that 100% works as advertised.
Our intake consists of a replacement air intake coverlid that is manufactured in house from CNC aluminum plate with carbon fiber bottom heat shield. The Fabspeed Motorsport 996TT & GT2 intake system works with either the factory paper filter or a BMC F1 or K&N filter. This system fits any and all Porsche 996TT cars with no interference anwhere.
Our system has been independently DYNO tested and shown in numerous tests to make an additional +20HP over stock. This is power that one can easily feel and it is all true.
FYI- allPorsche 996, 997, 996TT, 997TT engines have a engine lid FAN that continually BLOWS cold air directly onto the factory airbox when the driver is stuck in traffic. This is the "stuck in traffic fan" and you get all the cold air that engine requires when you are stuck in beltway traffic. When the car is rolling and driving away the REAR louvers in each and every Porsche 996TT engine lid scoops massive quantities of cold air into the engine bay. Porsche 996TT engines hydraulically lift up the rear spoiler at speed and DIVERT and SCOOP tons of cold ambient air into the engine bay and a 996TT engine easily grabs it and the DYNO data do not lie.
If you are having problems with your Porsche MAF sensor buy a $10 bottle of CRC Maf sensor spray and clean your sensor. Kevin have you ever tried one of our air intakes?
Happy New Year to everyone!
996TT Intake Photo:
996TT Intake Dyno Result:
Let me give you a little background on how Fabspeed USA designed and DYNO developed our Porsche 996TT high performance air intake system and how we design other air intake systems.
There are detailed VIDEO explanations along with verified actual DYNO data that supports all of our air intake systems. In additional if the parts does not make power we do not sell or release it regardless of sales potential.
Porsche seals their airboxes and sizes the actual openings a certain cars to reduce induction sound or intake roar and to make the cars quiet and to determine maximum intake flow. These are engineering parameters.
I noticed back in 2001 that German tuners/engine builders (9FF, Sportec and etc) and other USA engine builders tuners were using an airsaw to CUT OPEN the entire top face of the stock OEM Porsche factory airbox in order to make more power and sports car sound. The reciprocating saw irreversibly destroys the factory OEM airbox lid.
Since we have a inhouse Dyno and I have been designing products for 996TT cars since 1999 I had the opportunity to test OPEN airbox designs and evaluate different open designs. I used a DYNO with an automated weather station so there were NO bogus correction factors nor games in our testing.
Ultimately Fabspeed Motorsport designed and released a fully DYNO and track tested 996TT high performance air intake system that 100% works as advertised.
Our intake consists of a replacement air intake coverlid that is manufactured in house from CNC aluminum plate with carbon fiber bottom heat shield. The Fabspeed Motorsport 996TT & GT2 intake system works with either the factory paper filter or a BMC F1 or K&N filter. This system fits any and all Porsche 996TT cars with no interference anwhere.
Our system has been independently DYNO tested and shown in numerous tests to make an additional +20HP over stock. This is power that one can easily feel and it is all true.
FYI- allPorsche 996, 997, 996TT, 997TT engines have a engine lid FAN that continually BLOWS cold air directly onto the factory airbox when the driver is stuck in traffic. This is the "stuck in traffic fan" and you get all the cold air that engine requires when you are stuck in beltway traffic. When the car is rolling and driving away the REAR louvers in each and every Porsche 996TT engine lid scoops massive quantities of cold air into the engine bay. Porsche 996TT engines hydraulically lift up the rear spoiler at speed and DIVERT and SCOOP tons of cold ambient air into the engine bay and a 996TT engine easily grabs it and the DYNO data do not lie.
If you are having problems with your Porsche MAF sensor buy a $10 bottle of CRC Maf sensor spray and clean your sensor. Kevin have you ever tried one of our air intakes?
Happy New Year to everyone!
996TT Intake Photo:
996TT Intake Dyno Result:
02-02-2011, 12:23 PM
#35
Joe,
The more I have read, the more I am actually starting to think that the fabspeed part puts our motors at risk....I'm going to skip it as I drive in the USA and if I go over 85mph off track, my license might be at risk. Just my reality....I doubt I'd feel any power and have to agree with Mikelly. On track, I have too much power more than I don't have enough....
jeff
The more I have read, the more I am actually starting to think that the fabspeed part puts our motors at risk....I'm going to skip it as I drive in the USA and if I go over 85mph off track, my license might be at risk. Just my reality....I doubt I'd feel any power and have to agree with Mikelly. On track, I have too much power more than I don't have enough....
jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 02-02-2011 at 01:32 PM.
02-02-2011, 12:41 PM
#36
Every single part developed or produced, or "sold" by your company has fallen short of expectations...
This piece may be snake oil, but I have direct experience with there other products and could not have been happier.
Tom
02-02-2011, 01:31 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Mike I really have to disagree with you here. I had the 993 fabspeed exhaust back in the day, and it was a gem. I went thru 4 different exhausts and the fabspeed was the keeper. I don't know what your experiences with them are, but as a respected member of the Porsche community, don't over generalize.
This piece may be snake oil, but I have direct experience with there other products and could not have been happier.
Tom
This piece may be snake oil, but I have direct experience with there other products and could not have been happier.
Tom
02-02-2011, 01:42 PM
#38
I said "may" be snake oil. I personally like the design, and when I go to my new inlet pipes, I MAY use an open filter like this one. All of the big hp 996t's that I have seen either use fender intakes or open flat panels. I am keeping my stock MAF for the next round of upgrades, as the resolution is still acceptable for K24/18's. The extra flow from an exposed filter will help more then the hot air hurts as I will be on over sized pipes throughout. But I will also data-log the change so I can see the effect of modifying the filter.
As I said in my first post in the thread, there are applications where open filters are necessary, but stock-ish turbos is not one of them.
Tom
As I said in my first post in the thread, there are applications where open filters are necessary, but stock-ish turbos is not one of them.
Tom
02-02-2011, 03:13 PM
#40
For fabspeed: were these dynos done with the decklid open or closed?
02-02-2011, 04:46 PM
#41
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The fan in the engine compartment does draw cold air in, it does not evacuate the air. If this fan was not sufficient why would Porsche use it? With that being said everyone is going to say why wouldn't Porsche make the air box open like Fabspeed has. Well the answer to that is simple, the European laws restrict the amount of drive by noise a car can produce. Porsche being a European company is very aware of those laws and produces cars to fall within those laws and guide lines.
We have dyno tested this air box on multiple cars multiple different ways. We have dyno tested this product on a totally stock car (no modifications to anything other than the air box). We have tested this product on modified cars from just exhaust modifications to different turbos to modified intake tracts. The result was always the same, meaning we did gain power.
The post from Joe shows that we gained 20.5 hp. Let me explain how we do our dyno runs. We just the car and bring the car to full operating temperature. We perform one full throttle warm up run. We then perform at least 3 base line runs (this was with the stock air box). We then change the air box (roughly a 5 min change). At this point everything is still warm and the car is still at full operating temperature. We perform our 3 runs again. The power gains speak for themselves. When we replaced our 1st air box we did the runs with the deck lid closed.
I have installed this item on multiple different cars. I have not had any of my customer complain about the product.
As for the MAF going bad we have had plenty of success using the CRC cleaner. The way around that is to have a lightly oiled filter. Do not install the filter without getting some of the oil off prior to installation but as long as it is not dripping it will not effect the MAF.
This product does work and I will even off a $100 discount to anyone that mentions this post when placing an order. The product retails at $695 with a BMC filter so I will offer this product at $595.
We have dyno tested this air box on multiple cars multiple different ways. We have dyno tested this product on a totally stock car (no modifications to anything other than the air box). We have tested this product on modified cars from just exhaust modifications to different turbos to modified intake tracts. The result was always the same, meaning we did gain power.
The post from Joe shows that we gained 20.5 hp. Let me explain how we do our dyno runs. We just the car and bring the car to full operating temperature. We perform one full throttle warm up run. We then perform at least 3 base line runs (this was with the stock air box). We then change the air box (roughly a 5 min change). At this point everything is still warm and the car is still at full operating temperature. We perform our 3 runs again. The power gains speak for themselves. When we replaced our 1st air box we did the runs with the deck lid closed.
I have installed this item on multiple different cars. I have not had any of my customer complain about the product.
As for the MAF going bad we have had plenty of success using the CRC cleaner. The way around that is to have a lightly oiled filter. Do not install the filter without getting some of the oil off prior to installation but as long as it is not dripping it will not effect the MAF.
This product does work and I will even off a $100 discount to anyone that mentions this post when placing an order. The product retails at $695 with a BMC filter so I will offer this product at $595.
02-02-2011, 06:19 PM
#42
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All one person needs to do is look at the 997TT or new 997GT2. Porsche spend a ton of cash engineering the GT2 aluminum intake. All they did with the intake is "add" the second hole and duct fresh air into it.
They did NOT go with a exposed flat panel.
Jake, one needs to see the engine timing and air coming (volume( thru the MAF AND what the intake air temps recorded by the ECU.
BTW, the fan runs to reverse the convection of heat rising thru the engine compartment. The fan does NOT aid in dropping the engine compartment temperatures enough to reduce the intake air temps. I have seen it on my dyno and know exactly what it does.
I have a 3600 CFM engine compartment fan when I dyno these cars. This doesn't include my front fans and individual IC fans.
They did NOT go with a exposed flat panel.
Jake, one needs to see the engine timing and air coming (volume( thru the MAF AND what the intake air temps recorded by the ECU.
BTW, the fan runs to reverse the convection of heat rising thru the engine compartment. The fan does NOT aid in dropping the engine compartment temperatures enough to reduce the intake air temps. I have seen it on my dyno and know exactly what it does.
I have a 3600 CFM engine compartment fan when I dyno these cars. This doesn't include my front fans and individual IC fans.
02-02-2011, 06:57 PM
#43
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$600 is quite a bit of coin for an intake with no fresh air ducts (or any real engineering). Can't one just zip tie the factory air filter to the stock box and build a little L-bracket at the bottom and get the same results? Of course it doesn't look as pretty, but the concept is the same no?
02-03-2011, 06:58 AM
#44
$600 is quite a bit of coin for an intake with no fresh air ducts (or any real engineering). Can't one just zip tie the factory air filter to the stock box and build a little L-bracket at the bottom and get the same results? Of course it doesn't look as pretty, but the concept is the same no?
Agree....rain issues aside of course for any of these solutions.
Jeff
02-03-2011, 04:28 PM
#45
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Kevin
You are so completely wrong on many many issues. I know this FORUM is your personal "sand-box" but I will not allow you to obfuscate about 996TT airintake systems........ you are not the "superexpert" on matters Porsche. In fact less with less acrimony and more humility you might learn something.
Fabspeed Motorsport USA designed and fully tested our 996TT intake system and mapped IAT (intake air temperature)and recorded additional data. Empirical data and results were thoroughly proven.
The Porsche engine bay fans ALL BLOW DOWNWARDS onto the airbox. You mentioned they fans reverse and blow out. You are 100% completely wrong. Anyone can goto any 996TT, 997TT, 996, 997, GT3 car and independently verify this fact. Fabspeed has a VIDEO regarding this on my website.
Powertech and other super high end Porsche engine builders and tuners have installed Fabspeed 996TT intake coverlid and have proven these parts make significant power on all cars from Driver Education to PCA Clubracing ENDUROS. As I mentioned people dont have to Cut & Gut their factory 996TT/GT2 airbox coverlid to gain power and sports car sound.
KEVIN again- you mentioned- that Porsche added 2 air intake holes on the 997TT and restyled the airbox. Yes that part is true and I was the 1st USA and WORLD tuner to buy a 997TT car Gurads Red in order to make the worlds very best parts. Kevin you mention the 997TT airbox and pipes are ALUMINUM ........Kevin have you EVER SEEN or TOUCHED the 997TT...........the entire system is PLASTIC.
The GOOD news is that Fabspeed Motorsports USA designed a super highperformance dual cone carbon fiber air intake for 997TT cars too that added incredible sports car sound and POWER again and everything was fully vetted with proven engineering and results. Like I said before each and every Fabspeed Motorsports USA part makes horsepower and torque OR we will NOT release and sell it!
You are so completely wrong on many many issues. I know this FORUM is your personal "sand-box" but I will not allow you to obfuscate about 996TT airintake systems........ you are not the "superexpert" on matters Porsche. In fact less with less acrimony and more humility you might learn something.
Fabspeed Motorsport USA designed and fully tested our 996TT intake system and mapped IAT (intake air temperature)and recorded additional data. Empirical data and results were thoroughly proven.
The Porsche engine bay fans ALL BLOW DOWNWARDS onto the airbox. You mentioned they fans reverse and blow out. You are 100% completely wrong. Anyone can goto any 996TT, 997TT, 996, 997, GT3 car and independently verify this fact. Fabspeed has a VIDEO regarding this on my website.
Powertech and other super high end Porsche engine builders and tuners have installed Fabspeed 996TT intake coverlid and have proven these parts make significant power on all cars from Driver Education to PCA Clubracing ENDUROS. As I mentioned people dont have to Cut & Gut their factory 996TT/GT2 airbox coverlid to gain power and sports car sound.
KEVIN again- you mentioned- that Porsche added 2 air intake holes on the 997TT and restyled the airbox. Yes that part is true and I was the 1st USA and WORLD tuner to buy a 997TT car Gurads Red in order to make the worlds very best parts. Kevin you mention the 997TT airbox and pipes are ALUMINUM ........Kevin have you EVER SEEN or TOUCHED the 997TT...........the entire system is PLASTIC.
The GOOD news is that Fabspeed Motorsports USA designed a super highperformance dual cone carbon fiber air intake for 997TT cars too that added incredible sports car sound and POWER again and everything was fully vetted with proven engineering and results. Like I said before each and every Fabspeed Motorsports USA part makes horsepower and torque OR we will NOT release and sell it!
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Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive
Fort Washington, PA. 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
P: 215-646-4945
F: 215-646-9828
Exotic Car Performance Experts
Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Maserati, Bentley, Aston Martin, BMW, Audi and Jaguar.
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Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive
Fort Washington, PA. 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
P: 215-646-4945
F: 215-646-9828
Exotic Car Performance Experts
Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Maserati, Bentley, Aston Martin, BMW, Audi and Jaguar.
31 year PCA Club member supporter
14 year Ferrari Club member
1st ever financial supporter of Porsche Fans/ Rennlist