Vacuum leak or o2 sensors? Or something else???
10-08-2010, 12:37 PM
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Vacuum leak or o2 sensors? Or something else???
Would a vacuum leak cause the ABS to fail?
Since I had my 30k service ... the car has the following issues:
Check Engine light comes on
Car will sometimes stall when I take it out of gear and coast
Idol seeks around 800 to 2k rpm
Misfiring
ABS/PMS failure ( I noticed this seems to follow a dip in RPM (at idol) if it does not come on as soon as I start the car )
The Porsche diagnosis computer gives the following errors:
Bank 1,2,3 o2 sensors
Misfires
Also says there is an issue with the torque converter for the front wheels.. but the term it used was something like "strange" or "weird", meaning it happens occasionally.
Would a Vacuum leak cause all of this? All 3 o2 sensors were reading about the same voltage as each other.
Thanks
Since I had my 30k service ... the car has the following issues:
Check Engine light comes on
Car will sometimes stall when I take it out of gear and coast
Idol seeks around 800 to 2k rpm
Misfiring
ABS/PMS failure ( I noticed this seems to follow a dip in RPM (at idol) if it does not come on as soon as I start the car )
The Porsche diagnosis computer gives the following errors:
Bank 1,2,3 o2 sensors
Misfires
Also says there is an issue with the torque converter for the front wheels.. but the term it used was something like "strange" or "weird", meaning it happens occasionally.
Would a Vacuum leak cause all of this? All 3 o2 sensors were reading about the same voltage as each other.
Thanks
Last edited by bena; 10-08-2010 at 09:28 PM.
10-08-2010, 02:54 PM
#2
Race Director
Since I had my 30k service ... the car has the following issues:
Check Engine light comes on
Car will sometimes stall when I take it out of gear and coast
Idol seeks around 800 to 2k rpm
Misfiring
ABS/PMS failure ( I noticed this seems to follow a dip in RPM (at idol) if it does not come on as soon as I start the car )
The Porsche diagnosis computer gives the following errors:
Bank 1,2,3 o2 sensors
Misfires
Also says there is an issue with the torque converter for the front wheels.. but the term it used was something like "strange" or "weird", meaning it happens occasionally.
Would a Vacuum leak cause all of this? All 3 o2 sensors were reading about the same voltage as each other.
Thanks
Check Engine light comes on
Car will sometimes stall when I take it out of gear and coast
Idol seeks around 800 to 2k rpm
Misfiring
ABS/PMS failure ( I noticed this seems to follow a dip in RPM (at idol) if it does not come on as soon as I start the car )
The Porsche diagnosis computer gives the following errors:
Bank 1,2,3 o2 sensors
Misfires
Also says there is an issue with the torque converter for the front wheels.. but the term it used was something like "strange" or "weird", meaning it happens occasionally.
Would a Vacuum leak cause all of this? All 3 o2 sensors were reading about the same voltage as each other.
Thanks
If plugs I believe the intercoolers have to be removed and this means the intake hoses undone. Would not surprise me that one or more hose connections not secure and there's an intake vacuum/pressure leak, at least on the side with the misfires. (Although I encountered one case -- not a Turbo -- in which misfires on just one side were ultimately traced to a bad MAF.)
Does CEL flash? If not misfires are likely mechanically related not fuel related. This could suggest a problem with the VarioCam Plus system, but there are no error codes pointing at the VarioCam Plus system so I'd focus on the more obvious things: If the plugs done then they become suspect, as do the coils, and the intake system's vacuum/pressure integrity.
Generally when something appears wrong the last thing touched is the first thing suspected. And what was touched during the servicing needs to be checked over.
Get the misfires sorted out and then see what still remains. The other errors can arise from a poorly running engine, low voltage (battery ok? battery cables ok? Was battery, alternator "touched" during the 30K service?).
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-08-2010, 02:57 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
I think from the "What a Mess!" thread, the OP changed to 997 coils at the 30K service, and it seems that he needs a new shop to diagnose the current problems.
If the OP identified where he's located, perhaps a rennlister can refer him to a quality shop.
If the OP identified where he's located, perhaps a rennlister can refer him to a quality shop.
10-08-2010, 03:21 PM
#4
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You could have a failing fuel pump.
No PPI on the car wil get you the pain and hassles.
At some point you are going to have to check your car into a dealer of Independant that really knows these cars..
You could have all sorts of leaks. You could have a wiring harness failure.
What is the print out of codes >>tripped CEL's?
No PPI on the car wil get you the pain and hassles.
At some point you are going to have to check your car into a dealer of Independant that really knows these cars..
You could have all sorts of leaks. You could have a wiring harness failure.
What is the print out of codes >>tripped CEL's?
10-08-2010, 09:28 PM
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I am the same person as "what a mess"
Once in a while the check engine light will flash
30k service was Bosch plugs, 997 coil packs, brake fluid, alternator, starter, wiring harness. A shop broke the starter replacing the clutch and glued it back together to hide what they did.
I am In Rockville MD.
I guess the one possible saving grace is I paid Kelly Blue Book for the car, so I expected some repairs... LOL but was not expecting the whole electrical system to be shot.. I guess it's still a lot cheaper than a brand new one tho
Once in a while the check engine light will flash
30k service was Bosch plugs, 997 coil packs, brake fluid, alternator, starter, wiring harness. A shop broke the starter replacing the clutch and glued it back together to hide what they did.
I am In Rockville MD.
I guess the one possible saving grace is I paid Kelly Blue Book for the car, so I expected some repairs... LOL but was not expecting the whole electrical system to be shot.. I guess it's still a lot cheaper than a brand new one tho
10-09-2010, 10:49 AM
#6
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There are a number of great shops in our area. For electric problem, Matt DeMaria at Stuttgart Performance Engineering in Gaithersburg would be your best bet, 301-948-6762. Who did the other work?
What I have found in general is the the youngest and least experienced techs work at the dealerships. Once they really know their stuff they breakaway and start their own shops. This does not apply to everyone but to almost all the owners of the independent shops around here now.
You have a PM.
What I have found in general is the the youngest and least experienced techs work at the dealerships. Once they really know their stuff they breakaway and start their own shops. This does not apply to everyone but to almost all the owners of the independent shops around here now.
You have a PM.
Last edited by Land Jet; 10-09-2010 at 11:08 AM.
10-15-2010, 04:03 PM
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Ok, got my car back from another garage.. There seems to be personal issues between the 2 places I went.
The guy who fixed the vacuum leak thought the guy that did the plugs had to disconnect the turbos "drop the turbos" and thinks the first garage did not put it back together properly. He also wondered why I was given the car back after the starter and elec issues were fixed, but it was still running like crap and the check eng light was still coming on. 1st place told me to drive it and get back to them with any issues. I drove it for a week and it went into limp mode. I took it back to him and he checked it with the Porsche computer and said I would need to come back when he had time to look at it, he said he was rebuilding 2 engines, and I would need to leave the car for a week. At first he thought it was a bad o2 sensor, but then said.. maybe its a vacuum leak.
I visited the 1st place that did the plugs after paying the 2nd garage.. 1st place claims he did the work himself and did not disconnect those hoses. So I am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to change the plugs and coil paks without touching these tubes? ( see bottom for the repair notes)
Would the 1st place have noticed when doing the plugs that the left turbo intake was not attached? He said that the car would not have boosted at all if that was the case ( it did boost, but it ran like crap). He said he would not pay for the repair but would do an oil change "to keep me as a customer" ( but I got the feeling he would charge for parts.. to be seen next week.. ) Should I even think about letting him change my oil at this point?
I am also wondering why the 1st place did not bother to check the oil on either visit? 2nd guy said it was getting dangerously low. He also said that I could have sucked up some junk and ruined the engine.
I am happy to have a real 996 turbo now, but $5k+ in repairs :'(
When I went to the 1st place for the 30k work ( plugs, coils, brake fluid) I had already bought the parts, and he said that he buys the parts, he needs to make the money on the parts. He then told me he was fighting with someone about storage fees.. I had asked him to instal the fuel filter I bought as well as change the coolant, he did not do this work saying I did not need to do it.
I recommended the 1st place to a friend, he got an oil change. When I picked up my car for the 2nd time, he was asking me about what my friend does for a living ( $$$ lawyer ) and commented that he looked like he had a lot of money. I unwittingly confirmed this.
He offered me a cash discount of 10% on the phone but when I got there he said he could not give me a receipt for the work he did ( tack down issue, replace starter and wire harness ) + 10 hr labor, if I paid cash. Then I got in to my car to drive away and the fuse for the Radio was missing ( sloppy )
Any thoughts on what is going on...
Did the 1st place intentionally mess up the vacuum to have me come back so he could charge me for more repairs. He said he would need the car for a week to figure it out ( a great way to say you did way more hrs then he actually did, espc if he knew exactly what the issue was).
The 2nd place was trying to figure out the order of events trying to determine if this was done on purpose.
Here is what it says on the latest repair.
Ran sys test, found multi errors in DME unit
Removed y intake pipe, removed air filter housing
Smoke tested found leaks at:
Left intake pipe to turbo charger ( pipe completely out of turbo)
Leaks at right charge pipe from turbo to cooler
repaired leaks and smoke tested
Engine oil 3 liters low
8 hrs to repair = $880
The guy who fixed the vacuum leak thought the guy that did the plugs had to disconnect the turbos "drop the turbos" and thinks the first garage did not put it back together properly. He also wondered why I was given the car back after the starter and elec issues were fixed, but it was still running like crap and the check eng light was still coming on. 1st place told me to drive it and get back to them with any issues. I drove it for a week and it went into limp mode. I took it back to him and he checked it with the Porsche computer and said I would need to come back when he had time to look at it, he said he was rebuilding 2 engines, and I would need to leave the car for a week. At first he thought it was a bad o2 sensor, but then said.. maybe its a vacuum leak.
I visited the 1st place that did the plugs after paying the 2nd garage.. 1st place claims he did the work himself and did not disconnect those hoses. So I am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to change the plugs and coil paks without touching these tubes? ( see bottom for the repair notes)
Would the 1st place have noticed when doing the plugs that the left turbo intake was not attached? He said that the car would not have boosted at all if that was the case ( it did boost, but it ran like crap). He said he would not pay for the repair but would do an oil change "to keep me as a customer" ( but I got the feeling he would charge for parts.. to be seen next week.. ) Should I even think about letting him change my oil at this point?
I am also wondering why the 1st place did not bother to check the oil on either visit? 2nd guy said it was getting dangerously low. He also said that I could have sucked up some junk and ruined the engine.
I am happy to have a real 996 turbo now, but $5k+ in repairs :'(
When I went to the 1st place for the 30k work ( plugs, coils, brake fluid) I had already bought the parts, and he said that he buys the parts, he needs to make the money on the parts. He then told me he was fighting with someone about storage fees.. I had asked him to instal the fuel filter I bought as well as change the coolant, he did not do this work saying I did not need to do it.
I recommended the 1st place to a friend, he got an oil change. When I picked up my car for the 2nd time, he was asking me about what my friend does for a living ( $$$ lawyer ) and commented that he looked like he had a lot of money. I unwittingly confirmed this.
He offered me a cash discount of 10% on the phone but when I got there he said he could not give me a receipt for the work he did ( tack down issue, replace starter and wire harness ) + 10 hr labor, if I paid cash. Then I got in to my car to drive away and the fuse for the Radio was missing ( sloppy )
Any thoughts on what is going on...
Did the 1st place intentionally mess up the vacuum to have me come back so he could charge me for more repairs. He said he would need the car for a week to figure it out ( a great way to say you did way more hrs then he actually did, espc if he knew exactly what the issue was).
The 2nd place was trying to figure out the order of events trying to determine if this was done on purpose.
Here is what it says on the latest repair.
Ran sys test, found multi errors in DME unit
Removed y intake pipe, removed air filter housing
Smoke tested found leaks at:
Left intake pipe to turbo charger ( pipe completely out of turbo)
Leaks at right charge pipe from turbo to cooler
repaired leaks and smoke tested
Engine oil 3 liters low
8 hrs to repair = $880
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10-15-2010, 05:13 PM
#8
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Some shops remove the headers and get to the plugs from below. I prefer to remove the rear bumper and IC to get to the plugs.
Find a good shop. It's priceless in the end.
Find a good shop. It's priceless in the end.
10-15-2010, 06:04 PM
#9
Race Director
Yes, I think you had the bad luck to have the car worked on by a shop that either didn't know how to work on the car properly or didn't care to.
As an aside if a shop is doing a cash business it suggests it is not successful enough to pay the taxes/etc. that similar businesses that don't operate taking money under the table can pay.
I've run into indy shops that don't like -- one refused -- to have the car owner/customer supply parts. I had one owner tell me he needed the profit margin he made on the parts he installed. I used his shop that time but no more.
But I do not buy parts and then take the car to a shop to have these parts installed. The only thing I buy is oil cause the dealer where I take my car still uses Mobil 1 0w-40 and I don't care to run this oil anymore in my Porsches. The sevice manager does not give me any trouble and in fact -- which is what I would expect -- discounts the oil change to me by the amount the oil the dealer would have supplied/charged me for. I don't save much money but the peace of mind knowing the car gets filled with what I consider to be a better oil is worth it.
Sincerely,
Macster.
As an aside if a shop is doing a cash business it suggests it is not successful enough to pay the taxes/etc. that similar businesses that don't operate taking money under the table can pay.
I've run into indy shops that don't like -- one refused -- to have the car owner/customer supply parts. I had one owner tell me he needed the profit margin he made on the parts he installed. I used his shop that time but no more.
But I do not buy parts and then take the car to a shop to have these parts installed. The only thing I buy is oil cause the dealer where I take my car still uses Mobil 1 0w-40 and I don't care to run this oil anymore in my Porsches. The sevice manager does not give me any trouble and in fact -- which is what I would expect -- discounts the oil change to me by the amount the oil the dealer would have supplied/charged me for. I don't save much money but the peace of mind knowing the car gets filled with what I consider to be a better oil is worth it.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-18-2010, 12:52 PM
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Macster, what brand of oil do you prefer? Is it possible for me to change my own oil and if not what is a realistic price range for this service?
Any opinion on Motol oil (spelling?) That is the oil the 2nd shop uses.
I agree that the first shop is in trouble and acting like a hurried HMO doctor as well as ethical issues. I don't think I want to deal with that shop even if he were to do a free oil change.
FYI, I got a call this morning from the 2nd shop Tag Motorwerks wanting to know if the car is running good. I appreciate that this guy called to check in.
I finally own a 996 turbo and holy crap .... no video game prepares ya for it .... Sweeet!
Any opinion on Motol oil (spelling?) That is the oil the 2nd shop uses.
I agree that the first shop is in trouble and acting like a hurried HMO doctor as well as ethical issues. I don't think I want to deal with that shop even if he were to do a free oil change.
FYI, I got a call this morning from the 2nd shop Tag Motorwerks wanting to know if the car is running good. I appreciate that this guy called to check in.
I finally own a 996 turbo and holy crap .... no video game prepares ya for it .... Sweeet!
10-18-2010, 02:59 PM
#11
Race Director
Macster, what brand of oil do you prefer? Is it possible for me to change my own oil and if not what is a realistic price range for this service?
Any opinion on Motol oil (spelling?) That is the oil the 2nd shop uses.
I agree that the first shop is in trouble and acting like a hurried HMO doctor as well as ethical issues. I don't think I want to deal with that shop even if he were to do a free oil change.
FYI, I got a call this morning from the 2nd shop Tag Motorwerks wanting to know if the car is running good. I appreciate that this guy called to check in.
I finally own a 996 turbo and holy crap .... no video game prepares ya for it .... Sweeet!
Any opinion on Motol oil (spelling?) That is the oil the 2nd shop uses.
I agree that the first shop is in trouble and acting like a hurried HMO doctor as well as ethical issues. I don't think I want to deal with that shop even if he were to do a free oil change.
FYI, I got a call this morning from the 2nd shop Tag Motorwerks wanting to know if the car is running good. I appreciate that this guy called to check in.
I finally own a 996 turbo and holy crap .... no video game prepares ya for it .... Sweeet!
For the Turbo I have settled on using Castrol Syntec 5w-50 oil. Tried Mobil 1 5w-50 but I had to mail order it and that was a pain. Castrol Syntec 5w-50 I can buy the oil locally. In fact, at Kragen's, just bought 9 quarts the other day. The Turbo's due to have its oil changed this week and the 9 quarts are in the trunk just waiting for me to drop the car off at the dealer for its 45K mile oil/filter service.
Sincerely,
Macster.
