Chuck Jones

Folks usually recommend whatever it is they happen to be running in their cars in order to give you the "unbiased assessment". It's an easy resolution....go to the tuner who you see the most positive comments for.....which in my case was Kevin....however there are others out there too....do your homework. There was a thred that contained a poll on who had what tune....so do a search then make up your own mind depending upon which group of supporters you feel has the most credibility.

I usually have a tendency to look for the negative comments rather than the positive....then do my homework from whatever issue it was they raised. Bottom line is great functionality of the software, ease of installation, cost, and ongoing support from the tuner. That pretty much reduces the pool of good tuners to a condensed cadre of proven tuners.

TurboMark

I went the Upsolute route. Based on all of the research I did, people were mixed on it but it has worked out fine for me and the price was definitely right. I cant really speak to how it performs vs some of the other options but i have not had any issues in the two years I have had it installed.

Chuck Jones

The problem with these posts is that they're all subjective. We all use adjectives and descriptive phrases like.....It really feels great.....I really like the increased performance....I would recommend this to any of you thinking about a flash.

Absent some dyno sheets and a listing of what the individual has done to their car...I.E. did they put in a bigger exhaust system, replace turbos with bigger ones, change out the intercooler, wastegate upgrades, headers etc.....without that sort of criteria entered into the equation, it all becomes just another butt dyno and subjective assessment described as ...."Feels great" or "runs faster" sort of assessment.

Then there's the pricing...is it competitive when put up against another tuner's product? Did you get more or less performance based upon your investment threshold? Does a $2K flash work better than a $1300 one? Without a standard to measure against, it all becomes a matter of personal opinion...although some of the tuners have posted dyno sheets. How many of you know how to read what a dyno sheet shows? Not intended as a slam....just a series of questions.

Hoosier_Daddy

Update:

It now appears this may be plug related. 45k miles and original plugs / coil packs and it's surmised the plugs just couldn't tolerate the increased cylinder pressure.

It's getting plugs, (Bosch FR6LDC) and the 997T packs next week along with new DVs. I think she'll then be ready for a flash.

The current clutch is in fine shape.

I will now be considering a basis flash on this bone stock car and I DO NOT want to replace the clutch... I am looking for opinions, suggestions, past experiences. (Even if it may mean no flash to preserve the clutch)

In other words, I would rather be out nothing than $4000.00, if that makes any sense.

HD

Joe Weinstein

Any flash will threaten your clutch, depending on whether you actually make use of
the new power. I got Upsolute in 2001, needed a new better clutch in 6 weeks,
raced with it for years. Now I'm with Kevin and UMW for the 'touchless' programability
and multi-program options etc.

So I'd say the correct first tuning step with this
car is diverter valves, flash, and better clutch.

Hoosier_Daddy

I would definitely make use of the full power. It's usually on the mat during track events.

Chuck Jones

Like Joe, I too went with the UMW and although Kevin recommended I do the clutch, I didn't go with it figuring that the car only had about 28K miles on it and the clutch should be just fine....right....fine for about two weeks. So then I went with Kevin's Sachs clutch upgrade and all is well. It doesnt' seem to matter if you baby the clutch or not....the added power; especially in 4th thru 6th just has too much torque and will create your first slippage. After the first incident, they become more and more frequent until you start smelling burning clutch plates in the cabin...and your options are cut short. I didnt want to spend the money either, but with power comes the need for additional enhancements to other parts...and the clutch is central to a flash.

Joe: You didn't mention the exhaust system...more or less a requirement for optimum performance off a flash isn't it?

Hoosier_Daddy

Thanks guys, great feedback and pretty much what I needed to hear. Looks like I'll be waiting until such a time that the clutch needs replacing and do a flash at that time with a clutch upgrade. (maybe even an exhaust if I feel spend-thrifty)

wross996tt

I'm not Joe, but yes....I am also a UMW customer and quite happy (with the same clutch as chuck and the LWFW)

Chuck Jones

Hoosier: The person to talk to is whoever you choose as a tuner...but when I was going thru my research and landed in the UMW camp, Kevin was fairly adamant about the need for a decent exhaust system in order to provide the free flowing exhaust that maximizes the additional HP and torque you'll be getting. I went with Europipe...which is a brand Kevin also prefers. It has 100 cell cats but is one of the few that use the 100 cell cats that DON"T throw CELs.....but the downside is that they're pretty costly. I bought mine used from another Rennlister...so I would recommend you start looking now and try to find a nice used set. There are other options...but again, I'm bush league compared to the advice youll get from your tuner. The major advantage to the advice from the forum guys is that we aren't selling the products, but you'll find that we usually end up recommending whatever it is we happen to have installed in our cars. That seems like a raher biased recommendation unless we can provide you with some scientific info on the product line. Europipe has a website that shows the specs for their products at various rpm levels....they also include the db (noise rating) from inside and outside the cabin...which is something very few other manufacturers do.

Whichever way you go...start now and amortize your "investment" over time so that when you do make the move, it doesn't cost you all at once. Being redundant....TALK TO YOUR TuNER and come up with a plan for the future....don't wing it at the last moment and start buying this and that in a rush to get it all done.

Hoosier_Daddy

It also appears Kevin @ UMW has been MORE the open and honest about a car with a flash really needing a clutch upgrade in his posts... I just wanted some of your feedback on the situation... the guys who actually have flashed their cars and experienced the upgrade.

Thanks again!

Kevin

Hoosier, I have lost "tunes" from Sponsors on Rennlist telling customers what they want to hear.

"Oh, your clutch will be fine"

They went with the "other" tune and 4 weeks later they ended up buying a clutch from me.. Bittersweet.

If you are tracking your car, you have better tuning options to make your car more enjoyable on the track. It's night and day.

BTW I have a few reconditioned clutch kits for dual mass applications. Chuck is running one. This is a very good deal if someone has the miles on there stock clutch and is vary about the "health" of the clutch. I can explain what the kits consist of>> It's more like a scratch and dent sale...

Give me a ring 360.805-9066

Chuck Jones

I wasn't going to mention the "scratch and dent sale" for fear of depriving Kevin of a sale of a new iteration....BUT since he opened the door....I am constantly looking for options...a way to maximize my dollars....and Kevin had the reconditioned clutch that uses the stock Sachs (GT2??) clutch plates, an overall beefed up clutch...but reconditioned dual mass flywheel. No, I didn't go with the LWFW he recommended....At any rate, it's turned out to work just fine....I think he might outsource the flywheels, but that's his trade secret....I've had no problem wth the clutch holding everything I've thrown at it and there have been a couple of Thunderhill DE days with five runs per day in addition to some very spirited mountain road driving. Bill (WROSS) went with the LWFW and seems to like it, but I wanted a better setup for a daily driver in traffic and a stock feel to the clutch release...so I chose the dual mass.....not as fast on the rebound as the LWFW, but doesn't have some of the other (allegedly) annoying traits like rattle and stalling. PLUS, it didn't cost nearly as much.

Like I said, start now, talk to your tuner and explore the options....buy a bit here and there and defray the costs of the big hurt over time.

wross996tt

Chuck, I believe they are GT3(RS)...but what do I know?

Well for a different opinion...there is nothing difficult about the LWFW for DD. IMO the release is the same as stock, but different folks have different experiences with clutches. Kevin includes the appropriate idle to prevent stalling (mine has never stalled). The chatter goes away when the clutch is depressed at idle...and it doesn't bother me anyway (I'm in a cab). But seriously you should drive it and listen to it....KPG came by to try it out...this is a good way to make sure it is right for you....there almost as long as the shortest post from Chuck...LOL

Hoosier_Daddy

The issue (for me) is not whether it's a sport clutch or not, a LWFW or duel mass or not, it's just what's I feel like spending at the moment. (Especially with quarterly estimated taxes due here in 5 days) I really appreciate the honesty of the board because I would be pissed in 3 weeks when it needed a clutch after being told it was not a problem. BTW, I have two three day events coming up in the next month and between the hotels, food, brake pads, track tires and fuel, the last thing I want is another $2500-$3000 flying out. (Not to mention the utter hassle of trying to get my tech to squeeze in the job.)

Regarding the LWFW packages... in the past and for me, mostly a track driver, it's never been an issue on the street. My wife bitches every now and then about them on the street, but she's an instructor and generally comes around in time and really doesn't drive it on the street that much anyway. We've been doing this a long time, just not in this 996T. So this is all rather new to me.

At any rate ... I'll be giving Kevin a call to discuss things going forward. Forward like at the end of the track season here in the Northeast.