TurboRod

Howdy,

I own a bullet proof (resistant is more appropriate) 996TT MY01. This adds 200Kg of weight to the car specially because the glass is 22mm thick so there is much more weight at a higher level.

I had a chance to see how this affects the car at the last Porsche Racing Day I went to.

The car has more body roll and I didn't managed to finish all the laps for the "Flying Lap" event as the brakes started to fade. I noticed that the pedal would go farther and I tried to lock the brakes to make the ABS kick in and it didn't.

What can I do to the suspension (thicker stabilizer bar, etc.) to make the car have less body roll?

What can I do to minimize brake fading? A better fluid (Castro SRF)? Some kind of brake duct to cool them (www.sportec.ch)?

Since I only track the car maybe 2-3 times a year the simpler the recipe the better. Ideally something that is plug and play so I can "undo" it after the event to bring the car back to the more streetable stock setup. Going all out for stiffer racing shocks/springs wouldn't last and work well as the roads here are pretty rough.

Help!
Thanks!

VS

TurboRod

Yours is the first "bullet resistant" Turbo I
heard of. Guess you had to go for this option: where do you live, if this isn't a secret?

Unfortunately, there is not much you can do to make
your car feel 200 kilos lighter

The following will help somewhat:

1. High-T brake fluid such as Castrol SRF or
Motul 600.
2. Performance brake pads e.g. Pagid Orange

This should go a long way to help with brake fade.
You can get bigger brakes as a last resort...

3. For track, get tires/wheels as wide as possible especially in the front. I guess you can fit 265 in the front. Use racing tires such as Michelin Pilot Cup or Pirelli Corsa.

This will help with braking and will definitely improve cornering by inreasing the contact patch.

Another idea: I'd guess a healthy share of the bulletprofing stuff went into doors. You can buy a couple of gutted out 996 doors just for track. Maybe those nice carbon fiber ones even Shouldn't be too hard to swap out the doors...

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

TurboRod

VS,

In case you want to know why it's bullet proof here goes a copy of a post I made recently:

"Sao Paulo, Brazil. The kidnapping capital of the world. 1 person murdered every hour. 1 person kidnapped per day (official data was 270 until the end of Sept). This doesn’t include the “flash kidnaps” where they drive you around and withdraw money from your ATM card. Those aren’t considered kidnaps because you are less than 24 hours in the hands of these criminals. If you added those it would be MUCH more...

A few simple statistics: if I add my business associates + wife + her brother = 11 people. In this small “universe”. There have been 3 “flash kidnaps” (with gun pointed at you), around 8 robberies at the stop light with gun where they take your watch of which 3 were with the same person, one of them that doesn’t drive was robbed at least 3 times on foot. The apartment building in front of one of them was robbed every single apartment at the same time (it’s 1/2 mile from the police), the wife of the other had her rear window smashed and robbed...This all very recently (average in the last 2 years). That’s what I can remember of the top of my head.

IN THE MEAN TIME...In Rio de Janeiro in 2001 the total number of kidnaps was 9 (while in sao Paulo it was more than 300 that same year). So please understand that the problem is in Sao Paulo, not Rio. As the criminals themselves said on TV, in Rio they want to deal drugs...in Sao Paulo robberies, robberies+killing, killings, kidnaps, etc.

BTW the cops are “punished” in Sao Paulo if the fight crime by being put through programs where they have to work with clay, visit museums (nothing against that...) and even dance ballet...Human rights never shows up to visit the kidnap victims or their relatives...Only to make sure the criminal is being well taken care of at the jail and all his rights are being respected.

Sao Paulo is UPSIDE DOWN...and unfortunately the Governor was reelected. Guess the saying that every population has the government they deserve may be right...
"

Kevin

TurboRod;

Did Porsche do the modification to your glass? Does it include the front windshield and rear glass? Is there kevlar in the doors?

Thanks

TurboRod

Now back to the topic.

&gt;1. High-T brake fluid such as Castrol SRF or
Motul 600.

This I will definetly do.

&gt;2. Performance brake pads e.g. Pagid Orange

&gt;This should go a long way to help with brake fade. You can get bigger brakes as a last resort...

I was thinking of the ceramic brakes, but only once these wear out (rotor and pads).

&gt;3. For track, get tires/wheels as wide as possible especially in the front. I guess you can fit 265 in the front. Use racing tires such as Michelin Pilot Cup or
Pirelli Corsa.

I asked the Porsche dealer if I could put some slicks. He said that this was complicated because the 4WD system requires the tires to be the same size as stock and he couldn't source slicks in the same size.

&gt;This will help with braking and will definitely improve cornering by inreasing the contact patch.

&gt;Another idea: I'd guess a healthy share of the bulletprofing stuff went into doors. You can buy a couple of gutted out 996 doors just for track. Maybe those nice carbon fiber ones even Shouldn't be too hard to swap out the doors...

Now that's a bright idea! Why didn't I think of that? This will probably take a lot of weight. I think I can have them made locally. I just need to make sure the doors can be easily removed and make some kind of support/chest to lock them shut. Not that some of these criminals will be there to steal my doors , but the inside of the glass is policarbonate, which is very delicate and can easily scratch. Don't want any curious wanderers messing around with them.

BTW, there are 6 or 7 bullet proof 996 that I know of here. 2 Turbos.

Best regards!

TurboRod

Kevin,

The glass is made in Italy (Isoclima).

The other parts are bullet resistant steel (columns) as well as kevlar/aramid fibers in the doors and other places.

Very high quality and resistance. Done by a very professional company which leaves the car with a "stock" look.

Best!

TurboRod

Kevin,

Forgot to say that the car is all around bullet proof as to surround the occupants by a protective "shell".

Best!

VS

[quote]I asked the Porsche dealer if I could put some slicks. He said that this was complicated because the 4WD system requires the tires to be the same size as stock and he couldn't source slicks in the same size.<hr></blockquote>

Tires don't have to be exactly the same size as stock: all AWD requires is that the outside diameter of the front tires = the outside diameter of the rears. Some lines of racing tires, notably Michelin Pilot Cup are designed with AWD applications in mind so you can match O.D. front and rear pretty closely. For example, you can use Cups 295 30 R18 in the rear with 225 (stock size) or 265 in the front and still be fine. You will need wider front wheels to use 265s.

cobra06

Damn...Ole Locust Grove is sounding pretty good compared to to Sao Paulo.
I have some experience in executive protection and security. What is recommended is "train like you fight". that is, you bought a security package, get good at driving with it to include evasive maneuvers, high speed evasion, skid pad work etc.
A bunch of thinking and work went into your conveyance to protect you, get the most out of it as it stands, it may save your life. Most of the security conversion folks will help with suspension changes, I have seen some phenomenal suspension and tuning work done on Suburbans that weigh as much as an A1 tank !, your TT should be a breeze.
Best bet, buy a dedicated track car

ZAMIRZ

Turbo Rod,

How about trying to lighten your car in certain areas as to sort of return it to the stock non-protection package weight......You could take out the spare tire/jack assembly, rear seats (if you're not using them), some of the carpet, maybe switching to lightweight racing bucket seats (on trackdays, and then putting the stockers back in when your flossin in the city). Also, have you considered having dupont do their bulletproof treatment on the windows? My friend had it done to his Tahoe after people were breaking into it at parties. DuPont treats the glass with a special film and bakes it onto the glass in a certain way that if it is hit with an object such as a bullet or anything else traveling fast that it will either absorb it by shattering or simply make it bounce off. Our High School pitcher used to wind up in the parking lot and throw fast ***** at the car and they would just bounce off and fall on the ground......pretty cool stuff.

later,

amir (too bad you can't move huh?)

TurboRod

Cobra,

&gt;Damn...Ole Locust Grove is sounding pretty good compared to to Sao Paulo.

Israel is better than Sao Paulo. I did the stats. It is actually 10X safer (based on number of people killed in that conflict vs total population, I obviously cheer for a peaceful solution that will satisfy all sides there).

A recent link @CNN.com mentioned that 1 in every aproximately 26,000 israelis was killed recently. They compared it to "look around yourself at a baseball stadium, 1 person will be killed...something like that".

In Sao Pauo State which has 35 Million inhabitants there are more than 13,000 murders per year which is around 1 in every 2692. That's were the 10X came from. Brazilwise in 1990 there where 25,000 murders that year. Ten years later (2000) that number was 40,000 per year. And last year (2001) it reached 50,000. So if you add up the last 10 years its at least 300,000 murders. That is A LOT of people. And that is only ASSASINATIONs. Doesn't include car crashes, etc.

Both very sad and depressing stories anyway...

&gt;I have some experience in executive protection and security. What is recommended is "train like you fight". that is, you bought a security package, get good at driving with it to include evasive maneuvers, high speed evasion, skid pad work etc.

No comment. But I drive like an animal...Hard to keep up with me in traffic. And I guess this car DRAWS SO MUCH attention here that even the criminal will be "stunned" by the looks.

&gt;A bunch of thinking and work went into your conveyance to protect you, get the most out of it as it stands, it may save your life. Most of the security conversion folks will help with suspension changes, I have seen some phenomenal suspension and tuning work done on Suburbans that weigh as much as an A1 tank !, your TT should be a breeze.

Actually the 996TT is one of the "easiest" cars to bullet proof and it accepts it very well. Since the car was actually a 2+2, the additional weight takes from the weight of "would have" passengers in the back. The glass fits in nicely and the +420 (+ because I run 100 RON octane and the Porsches come "deCATted" to Brazil, I can explain this in another thread if someone wants to) don't complain. Boy did I fight a lot of stuff between those ().

&gt;Best bet, buy a dedicated track car

I have. But it doesn't compare to the 996TT. But VS's idea was actually very cool. I am going to see if I find some 996 doors and I strip the finish and just leave the outer shell with the side impact bars which could be usefull in a crash. Much better than messing with the suspension, brakes, etc. Imediate benefit. Why didn't I think of that??

Best!

TurboRod

Zamirz,

I though of a film type solution, but there are just too many 9mm, .45, 357 and 44 Magnums as well as AR-15 (M-16s). AK47 and other military rifles on the streets. No film can handle that kind of stuff...

Meanwhile the cops have .38, .380 or .40 in general?!

But removing the spare wheel, jack, tools, rear seats, etc. is a good idea.

I do have the GT2 seats which I think are light. On the other hand I put in the Porsche Y-cross roll over protection.

Best!

judd944

Wow Brazil sounds risky I had a close call in Venezuela a few years back with a kidnapping and that was over a Dodge Pickup! I carry a 9mm in my car or on my person most every day, not that anyone wants my 86 944

FixedWing

[quote]Originally posted by TurboRod:
<strong>I was thinking of the ceramic brakes, but only once these wear out (rotor and pads).
</strong><hr></blockquote>

NO!!

The ceramic brakes are absolutely not for use on the track. Believe me, I know.

I thought the best suggestion was the dedicated track car. You are obviously not without resources. So go buy yourself a surplus 996 Cup Car and ship it back to Brazil. End of problem. It will also be a lot more entertaining on the track than is your Turbo.

Presumably you would also be able to register it for the road in Brazil without too many modifications if you so wished.

S.

GlobeTrotter

Why a 9mm?? why not a .45?? just curious, i'm interested in knowing the differences, advantages, and disadvantages.

or maybe a .454? j/k

[quote]Originally posted by judd944:
<strong> I carry a 9mm in my car or on my person most every day, </strong><hr></blockquote>