The Zero Clearance Experience- What A Ride!
08-19-2006, 10:53 PM
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The Zero Clearance Experience- What A Ride!
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Well, it is finally done.The 01 TT ZC is totally broken in and I am stunned with the performance. Before I go any further, let me preface this thread with a disclaimer. This is my car and my opinion. I will not have a dyno or 1/4 mile slip til Sept when I take some time off work.Until then I have some notes concerning boost spool while driving, but more on that later. My complete satisfaction with this kit and its manufacturer has no bearing on any other tuner or turbo package.The choices I made may not work for you, and that is fine. Your choices may not work for me, and that is fine too.First off, Kevin at Ultimate Motorwerks produced this kit, which included ported and polished headers and custom ECU programming to take advantage of the Zero Clerance option. I also previously installed his LWFW, which is totally streetable , but that is another thread. The turbos are K16/24+ hybrids with the Zero Clearance option.The cold side has a wheel larger than a stock K24/X50/GT2 wheel. The compressor housing is zero clearanced to maximize efficiency. The hot side has the stock K16 wheel, but the turbine housing was ported and polished and the A/R ratio increased to increase flow. Porting of the wastegate port was also done. The Install: I did this myself in about 7 hours and I wholeheartedly recommend wrenching on your own car if you are capable. It is a rewarding experience. Did I make mistakes, Yes. Pinched an Oring to the driver side oil sump, but that leak was easy to fix because it was very obvious and very messy Overtorqued the pass side oil sump drain plug and cracked the edge. Not leaking but Sunset is sending a new unit for 85 $ just in case. The oil priming instructions must be followed to the letter of you may have 2 very useless turbos on startup. When the turbos are removed the check valves that keep the oil from siphoning back into the engine need to be put on the new turbos. Therefore, depending how long it takes to swap the units it could take 30+ seconds before oit hits your fancy new turbos. Pull the fuel pump fuse and place oil catch cans under the pressure lines and crank til oil pumps out in a clear stream. I was paranoid so I primed at least a gallon of oil thru the engine before startup, these were not going to run dry. Zero Clerance Break IN: This isnt for the faint of heart or those who are in a rush. I had about 4 days involved in this breakin. 2 days just in the garage and 2 on the road. I took off work so this was 4 full days. The garage time is heat cycling the turbos. Zero Clearance is just that...zero clearance between the wheel and the compressor wall coatings. Sart the vehicle and let idle for 15 min.Restart when you can grab the turbine housing with your hand, about 3 hours. Repeat 3 times. Rev the engine with varying RPMs to 2500 max. Let cool. Repeat 3 times. 3500 RPMs. Let cool. Repeat 3 times. 4500 rpms. Let cool. Repeat 3 times. Basically you want the wheel to slowly etch into the wall coatings without too much heat or speed too early. Load up the turbo breakin program and hit the road on the 3rd day. I did 75 miles in 3 parts with 30 min cooloffs in between. 4500RPM max. .4 bar max boost. I let the car cool for 4 hours and did it again. I did another 100 miles because I am paranoid and If I screwed this up I had to blame the installer...me. Then some low boost pulls. Roll in and out of boost, get the turbo RPMs increasing progressively. I did a hundred miles of that. Finally, load up the stock program and do some boost runs on the highway. Because this setup is so efficient my stock program was boosting .8 instead of .6 . This breakin isnt for everyone but discipline will pay divdends in the long term reliabilty. I went way beyond what was recommended for breakin , but I am paranoid! Programming: The kit comes with the Pocket Programmer which can store 8 files. Stock, Stage 2, Valet, and Turbo breakin are included. Kevin wrote me a Stage 2 low boost program for my wife when she tracks the car. It should produce around 500HP as it is a 1 bar program. I was not charged for the low boost program. The programs can be tweeked infinitely. If I chose i could have restricted HP,torque peak and redline for the low boost program.The programming is smooth, refined and flawless . Performance: I loaded the low boost program and ran that for a hundred miles. Did i say I am paranoid? The low boost program was ferocious. Instant spool in 1 and 2 gear. I then loaded up the Stage 2 file and it was like a hit in the gut. First gear is useless. 2nd not much better. The car just goes thru 1st and 2nd so fast it is stunning. I never got full boost until the top end of 2nd gear with my previous kit. If I punch it from a roll in 2nd at 2K rpms I have 1.2 bar by 2500 rpm and it pulls like a freight train to redline. I feel that 4th gear is now my fun gear when 2nd used to be. I wrote some boost numbers down while I was driving to try and give a reference for spoolup. I would punch the throttle and watch the boost rise.
6th gear 72mph 2500rpm full throttle 0.0,.3,.6,.9,1.2
5th gear 62mph 2000rpm full throttle 0.0/.4/.9/1.2
5th gear 73mph 3000rpm full throttle 0.0/.5/1.2/
4th gear 72mph 3500rpm full throttle 0.0/.9/1.2
4th gear 62mph 3000rpm full throttle 0.0/.5/1.2
I know these numbers are hardly scientific, but a fellow 6speeder "Ray" posted an in car video of the same boost gauge numbers of his brothers 997TT in 6th gear at 62 mph. It is an interesting comparison. It did not jump by .3 bar at a time. On the street, 2nd gear usually jumps straight from 0.0 directly to 1.1. Boost is available everywhere and very quickly at that!
Price: I wont speak out of class on Kevin's prices other than to say the whole package Turbos, ECU, Headers and LWFW are priced very competitively. Kevin: A first rate vendor and a first rate person as well. Never once in our hours of conversations was I hurried off the phone. Usually I had to tell him I had to go. In my opinion he is honest as the day is long. Everything, and I mean everything he told me about what i was purchasing was totally accurate. He fielded numerous calls during the install and breakin and never made me feel as if iwas imposing. He provides a level of customer service that is unfortunately all too rare these days. Very rarely these days have I spent a large sum of money on a product or service and felt that my expectations were met. Heck, it is something of a miracle to just get what you paid for. To have your expectations exceeded on every level is rare indeed. Kevin: Well done!
Well, it is finally done.The 01 TT ZC is totally broken in and I am stunned with the performance. Before I go any further, let me preface this thread with a disclaimer. This is my car and my opinion. I will not have a dyno or 1/4 mile slip til Sept when I take some time off work.Until then I have some notes concerning boost spool while driving, but more on that later. My complete satisfaction with this kit and its manufacturer has no bearing on any other tuner or turbo package.The choices I made may not work for you, and that is fine. Your choices may not work for me, and that is fine too.First off, Kevin at Ultimate Motorwerks produced this kit, which included ported and polished headers and custom ECU programming to take advantage of the Zero Clerance option. I also previously installed his LWFW, which is totally streetable , but that is another thread. The turbos are K16/24+ hybrids with the Zero Clearance option.The cold side has a wheel larger than a stock K24/X50/GT2 wheel. The compressor housing is zero clearanced to maximize efficiency. The hot side has the stock K16 wheel, but the turbine housing was ported and polished and the A/R ratio increased to increase flow. Porting of the wastegate port was also done. The Install: I did this myself in about 7 hours and I wholeheartedly recommend wrenching on your own car if you are capable. It is a rewarding experience. Did I make mistakes, Yes. Pinched an Oring to the driver side oil sump, but that leak was easy to fix because it was very obvious and very messy Overtorqued the pass side oil sump drain plug and cracked the edge. Not leaking but Sunset is sending a new unit for 85 $ just in case. The oil priming instructions must be followed to the letter of you may have 2 very useless turbos on startup. When the turbos are removed the check valves that keep the oil from siphoning back into the engine need to be put on the new turbos. Therefore, depending how long it takes to swap the units it could take 30+ seconds before oit hits your fancy new turbos. Pull the fuel pump fuse and place oil catch cans under the pressure lines and crank til oil pumps out in a clear stream. I was paranoid so I primed at least a gallon of oil thru the engine before startup, these were not going to run dry. Zero Clerance Break IN: This isnt for the faint of heart or those who are in a rush. I had about 4 days involved in this breakin. 2 days just in the garage and 2 on the road. I took off work so this was 4 full days. The garage time is heat cycling the turbos. Zero Clearance is just that...zero clearance between the wheel and the compressor wall coatings. Sart the vehicle and let idle for 15 min.Restart when you can grab the turbine housing with your hand, about 3 hours. Repeat 3 times. Rev the engine with varying RPMs to 2500 max. Let cool. Repeat 3 times. 3500 RPMs. Let cool. Repeat 3 times. 4500 rpms. Let cool. Repeat 3 times. Basically you want the wheel to slowly etch into the wall coatings without too much heat or speed too early. Load up the turbo breakin program and hit the road on the 3rd day. I did 75 miles in 3 parts with 30 min cooloffs in between. 4500RPM max. .4 bar max boost. I let the car cool for 4 hours and did it again. I did another 100 miles because I am paranoid and If I screwed this up I had to blame the installer...me. Then some low boost pulls. Roll in and out of boost, get the turbo RPMs increasing progressively. I did a hundred miles of that. Finally, load up the stock program and do some boost runs on the highway. Because this setup is so efficient my stock program was boosting .8 instead of .6 . This breakin isnt for everyone but discipline will pay divdends in the long term reliabilty. I went way beyond what was recommended for breakin , but I am paranoid! Programming: The kit comes with the Pocket Programmer which can store 8 files. Stock, Stage 2, Valet, and Turbo breakin are included. Kevin wrote me a Stage 2 low boost program for my wife when she tracks the car. It should produce around 500HP as it is a 1 bar program. I was not charged for the low boost program. The programs can be tweeked infinitely. If I chose i could have restricted HP,torque peak and redline for the low boost program.The programming is smooth, refined and flawless . Performance: I loaded the low boost program and ran that for a hundred miles. Did i say I am paranoid? The low boost program was ferocious. Instant spool in 1 and 2 gear. I then loaded up the Stage 2 file and it was like a hit in the gut. First gear is useless. 2nd not much better. The car just goes thru 1st and 2nd so fast it is stunning. I never got full boost until the top end of 2nd gear with my previous kit. If I punch it from a roll in 2nd at 2K rpms I have 1.2 bar by 2500 rpm and it pulls like a freight train to redline. I feel that 4th gear is now my fun gear when 2nd used to be. I wrote some boost numbers down while I was driving to try and give a reference for spoolup. I would punch the throttle and watch the boost rise.
6th gear 72mph 2500rpm full throttle 0.0,.3,.6,.9,1.2
5th gear 62mph 2000rpm full throttle 0.0/.4/.9/1.2
5th gear 73mph 3000rpm full throttle 0.0/.5/1.2/
4th gear 72mph 3500rpm full throttle 0.0/.9/1.2
4th gear 62mph 3000rpm full throttle 0.0/.5/1.2
I know these numbers are hardly scientific, but a fellow 6speeder "Ray" posted an in car video of the same boost gauge numbers of his brothers 997TT in 6th gear at 62 mph. It is an interesting comparison. It did not jump by .3 bar at a time. On the street, 2nd gear usually jumps straight from 0.0 directly to 1.1. Boost is available everywhere and very quickly at that!
Price: I wont speak out of class on Kevin's prices other than to say the whole package Turbos, ECU, Headers and LWFW are priced very competitively. Kevin: A first rate vendor and a first rate person as well. Never once in our hours of conversations was I hurried off the phone. Usually I had to tell him I had to go. In my opinion he is honest as the day is long. Everything, and I mean everything he told me about what i was purchasing was totally accurate. He fielded numerous calls during the install and breakin and never made me feel as if iwas imposing. He provides a level of customer service that is unfortunately all too rare these days. Very rarely these days have I spent a large sum of money on a product or service and felt that my expectations were met. Heck, it is something of a miracle to just get what you paid for. To have your expectations exceeded on every level is rare indeed. Kevin: Well done!
Last edited by KPG; 08-19-2006 at 11:21 PM.
08-20-2006, 03:50 PM
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ZC in car video
Just took a quick incar video to show the quick spool. I slowed the video down frame by frame and the turbos produced 0.0-1.1bar in a little under 300 rpms in 4th gear at 70 mph. Those are very quick turbos. Kevin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4kyYel5Ob4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4kyYel5Ob4
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08-21-2006, 12:03 AM
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Thanks for the video.. Those turbochargers are definately singing..
To let people know, I do not need to see owners ECU.. Infact, in this particular situation Kevin was running his car in a break-in file/valet file and request/asked is I could write his wife a reduced performance file.. All that was required to do was Kevin FedEx the Pocket Loader Programmer back to me.. I received it and sent it back to him the same day.
Sky is the limit for the program content. You retain your stock file and have the flexability of 7 different files..
To let people know, I do not need to see owners ECU.. Infact, in this particular situation Kevin was running his car in a break-in file/valet file and request/asked is I could write his wife a reduced performance file.. All that was required to do was Kevin FedEx the Pocket Loader Programmer back to me.. I received it and sent it back to him the same day.
Sky is the limit for the program content. You retain your stock file and have the flexability of 7 different files..
08-21-2006, 12:16 AM
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Sky is the limit for the program content. You retain your stock file and have the flexability of 7 different files..[/QUOTE]
That is quite an understatement! When i asked for a roughly 500HP reduced boost file for my wife and also for me for rainy track days I was a little taken back by the options. Did I want a reduced RPM rev limit, peak torque to taper off at the top, in the middle, reduce timing, or have the pocket programmer change songs on the CD... just kidding. You really can get a truly "custom" file. The only problem is I am thinking non stop how to fill those remaining 3 open file slots in the PP. Could be worse problems to have!! Kevin G
That is quite an understatement! When i asked for a roughly 500HP reduced boost file for my wife and also for me for rainy track days I was a little taken back by the options. Did I want a reduced RPM rev limit, peak torque to taper off at the top, in the middle, reduce timing, or have the pocket programmer change songs on the CD... just kidding. You really can get a truly "custom" file. The only problem is I am thinking non stop how to fill those remaining 3 open file slots in the PP. Could be worse problems to have!! Kevin G
08-21-2006, 08:57 AM
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This sound totally awesome!,
Kevin, give us some real data when you get a chance: 1/4 mile or AX-22 runs (you can use mine
as I did my 60-130 runs yesterday and just need a card reader to extract the data)
Marty K
Kevin, give us some real data when you get a chance: 1/4 mile or AX-22 runs (you can use mine
as I did my 60-130 runs yesterday and just need a card reader to extract the data)
Marty K
08-21-2006, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Woodster
This sound totally awesome!,
Kevin, give us some real data when you get a chance: 1/4 mile or AX-22 runs (you can use mine
as I did my 60-130 runs yesterday and just need a card reader to extract the data)
Marty K
Kevin, give us some real data when you get a chance: 1/4 mile or AX-22 runs (you can use mine
as I did my 60-130 runs yesterday and just need a card reader to extract the data)
Marty K
so I will let the facts speak for themselves when the time comes...but, it is an out of body experience! Kevin
08-22-2006, 06:40 AM
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Er.......paragraphs ? 
Long write up which after making me dizzy reading through it (maybe I need glasses
) doesn't actually tell the reader anything substantive.
The hyperbole is all well and good but surely pointless without reference points and as Woodster points out some real world acceleration data ?
BTW save the 1/4mile for 6bling site - they enjoy that kind of transmission torture over there
I have no doubt that this kit from Kevin is the business as he is one tuner who knows his onions - but some accelration data would be the real proof, you could even show some starts from low revs (on the AX22) to illustrate the effect of the ZC
Long write up which after making me dizzy reading through it (maybe I need glasses
) doesn't actually tell the reader anything substantive.The hyperbole is all well and good but surely pointless without reference points and as Woodster points out some real world acceleration data ?
BTW save the 1/4mile for 6bling site - they enjoy that kind of transmission torture over there
I have no doubt that this kit from Kevin is the business as he is one tuner who knows his onions - but some accelration data would be the real proof, you could even show some starts from low revs (on the AX22) to illustrate the effect of the ZC
08-22-2006, 08:58 AM
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TB993tt,
I read the KPG posting and thought , Wow , this guy is having real FUN !!!
Isnt that what owning these cars is all about ?
If its only the numbers that turn you on , you are missing a lot.
All the best
Geoff
I read the KPG posting and thought , Wow , this guy is having real FUN !!!
Isnt that what owning these cars is all about ?
If its only the numbers that turn you on , you are missing a lot.
All the best
Geoff