Woodster

TB,

in this case, KPG has a "baseline" 1/4 mile time (and I believe he likes to do it), so
a new 1/4 mile time will be a useful piece of information, these cars are hard to get
below 11.5 without re-gearing of going deeper...

I have an AX-22 that he can use as well!

Marty K.

TB993tt

I guess my post does come off pretty negative

Its just I can't relate to the spool up or the acceleration without numbers, without data it could just be someone swapping from a Boxster to a 996 turbo which would seem a big deal.
I suppose I like to see whether it is 60-130mph in 11seconds style of Fun or 60-130mph in 8.5seconds style of fun - without the numbers it is meaningless to me.
But I'm glad he's having a good time

BTW if YOU got to grips with the numbers then you can REALLY relate to how much of a good time tuned cars can give !

Woodster: Fair point about the drag times - I guess better than nothing ?

Red rooster

TB993tt ,
OK. Without laboring the point ,would I want a twin turbo Corvette that would out accelerate anything in sight ?
No . There is so much more to enjoying a car than that !
No doubt KPG will get to measuring some numbers but will he enjoy the car more ? I doubt it.
I guess we all have a different take on these things and maybe have to respect the other guys perspective .

All the best

Geoff

TB993tt

It is possibly worth labouring a little - Yes I take your point that this individual has posted an excited post which makes it obvious that he is really enjoying his "upgrade experience" and this is great and you are totally correct I shouldn't have come accross all negative.

The thing with the internet and forums is that one can really only appreciate what the hyperbole words actaully mean if one has data.

The classic for me was on 6Bling site when some guy asked Craig (something along the lines of) "just before your 900hp engine blew just how quick was it ? was it ohmygawd quick or like Jesusohmymygawdy quick"

This guy was being serious, but the exchange meant nothing and it was only after reading it that one realised that that was time wasted as nothing was learnt.

Your point about KPG enjoying his car more when he actually measures his numbers - Of course his numbers will have an effect on how much he enjoys his car - he is a man and he will doubtlessly want to relate his perspective to others - this is testosterone

If his car scares the pants off him yet he is only doing 60-130mph in 11secs then he can relate to just how scary the guys whose car's do it in 8.5s are - just like the guys who drive the 700+hp chassis dyno packages don't like to actaully measure their acceleration, they prefer the 700+hp moniker.

edpurplett

My .02 :-)

.... the issue here seems pretty clear to me... maybe since I'm on both sides...

... The DIY guys('folks' not to be sexist) tend to look a little differently at performance and at the 'path' to getting there....(since the path can be almost all the fun for them verus the HP/track/acceleration nuts who justifiably demand numbers .. at least from themselves and look at the merits of HP claims and are very conscious of effort and $$ expended to achieve a return... and who also want good vendors rewarded and not jsut with anecdotal musings)... and maybe sometime wish all had their same interests :-).. (and quite honestly I wish more folks would/could quantify mods more easily but it is tough even under perfect circumstances...) and I too hate all the claims with no substantiation... (not related to posts here, just in general)

for some who have rarely turned wrenches (I'm not suggesting this was the case here)... and change their oil and regap their plugs, or some maint item,... not to mention if they actually modify their cars... it is satisfying, I remember it well.. though a long time ago.... now I want definitive rewards from my time and $$ .. and seat of the pants can be very misleading if you're not really sensitive to the issues... as recognized by the 55 pages of 60-130 posts :-) and the lively converstion there... not to mention posts about intercoolers, programing and turbos etc etc... and the responses they elicit... people REALLY care about all facets of performance...

but when you progress to advanced junkie :-)...HP and track issues matter a lot... you want facts... and live your life in search of HP and making your engine more responsive and making your car handle better...I'm preaching to choir.. ill shut up..

... so let's stop throwing stones at each other and TB apologized..:-) ....

We all enjoy what we enjoy for different reasons..have fun

e

John D II

Guys,

FYI - I did the 70 MPH in 4th gear...mash the throttle test today and the boost gauge read 1.2 bar in 3 seconds or less. I have the Speed Gallery K16/24 low clearance turbos. I suspect various brands of the tuned cars probably behave in this same manner. It may be a function of the K16/24 hybrid - I am not sure.

Acropora

Ed where are those AX numbers, lol. My almost competed build is pretty close to yours so am particularly interested. Just need the turbos...
Jean has done a great job in letting us compare apples to apples w/ the AX.
Hope to do some runs with it soon especially now that it's getting into the 30's here at night w/ summer ending.
Also plan to run KPG here in MI for more comparative data at the 1/4 mile track. Am betting the stage 2 996 compares well to a 3.8 evo cammed 993.

edpurplett

Bradley,

With scheduling issues it never headed north, and the heat... hmmmpff ..'like mine'... please know that Todd always leaves a 'little bit out' when the engines aren't mine :-)...

I'm excited for you !!! Going with Super 60's?? After having it a while.. I would consider slighlty larger turbos... if only for the woodie factor.. :-).. not for any practical purposes at all.. the torque and spin up is insane.. I actually want teh AX22 to try and prove the area 'under teh curve' can actually skew traditional HP/weight-time scenarios.. or I keep deluding myself... of course my timings may be off and the speedo, but my 60-130's shouldn't be possible.. though..

I'll wait to hear your turbo answer.. since you'll have to juggle a few things if you do.. I am at the limit of compressor wheel, injector and maybe fuel pump capacity.. so I for example couldnt run larger turbos without going up in injector size... and then I would run into the MAF-divider network limitations...

BUT 40-50 HP is 40-50 HP..... if you want look at Jeans dyno runs versus mine .. no better example... he whumps me by 100+... ft lbs and HP.. but my torque curve is maybe 1500 rpm lower... and the other caveat is he has a MAP rig.. my point is the 50 HP will come at teh expense of some lag etc.. but for tractability it's tought to beat the 3.8's with smaller turbos (I guess your CR is 8-1? you can only get the 8.9 with the '94 cylinders and the NA heads...as far as I know(for Mahle's anyway) and if I tracked a lot I'm not 100% sure I would w2ant 8.9 to one in an aircooled car...

.. anyway .. hurry up!!

KPG

What part of " this is hardly scientific " and " this is my opinion" do you not understand? Do not start flaming a fire that is not there. This was a writeup on my purchase,install,breakin and opinions... nothing more. Kevin

KPG

Thanks Geoff, apparently YOU understand

KPG

Geoff, I have a date with a Mustang Dyno on Sept 19th...unfortunately my schedule cannot accomodate TB993TT sooner, and for that I apoligize. I will have 1/4 times during the same week, although I may be able to accomodate TB993TT sooner. I do not own an AX22 although I am considering one and I apoligize to TB993TT for not including it on last years Christmas list.

TB993TT: I do not know you and you do not know me. Please refrain from viewing everyone and everything in a negative light. You are the only one who missed the point. This was fun and rewarding. Nowhere was any statement of performance presented as fact. On the contrary, I though it was quite obvious this was an opinion. I also thought it was quite clear that I said dyno and track numbers were forthcoming and would be posted as soon as possible. Try to have a nice day. Kevin

Jean

Acropora,

I hope for you that you grill it or else your engine is no good, my short race at 0.7 Bar vs a stage 4 GIAC with stage 2ZC turbos was quite depressing to watch on video for the 996 owner, as he had just beaten a modded Skyline GTR. The 3.8 twin plug 993TT is just in another league. I need to find that video.

KPG, congrats on the car, I am sure it is fun to drive, BTW, TB apologized earlier.

Zippy

What's a MAF-Divider network? Is it a twin MAF set up like the 997TT? It sounds like a method for overcoming the resolution restrictions provided by a stock MAF in the higher air flow situations.

Acropora

Ed, a second set w/ super 60's like yours may happen for the track but the 'woodie factor' was partially in effect.. Each compressor is rated at 41#, about halfway between your's and Jeans which with 60# injectors should do something. Track season is largely over, can't believe it...

edpurplett

Brad, Sounds like a plan... as much fun as it is to feel like yiou have 510 CI big block.. the 'kick in the pants' stuff is a lot of fun.... with the bigger fans...

Zip, Yes the divider network overcomes the stock MAF 490-510ish HP limitations... bit it too chokes at about 550....(though I guess you could play with some othe variable, but I NEVER want to be 'new kid' with mods..) not that I'm complaining... (it's more software than hardware.. no 2nd meter..)

Sorry to hijack post on 996 board.. just saw where I was... Bad Brad .....

ed