959 - legal or illegal or what...
12-04-2002, 01:11 PM
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959 - legal or illegal or what...
Someone here must know the answer to this. For years the 959 has been a no-can-drive in the US. I hear some law has passed which may have changed this. Is this true... If there is one car I might give up the GT2 for...
12-04-2002, 01:31 PM
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Dean,
Why would you ever give up that beautiful GT2 of yours for a 959? The GT2 is faster, looks better, and is so much more modern. Granted, the 959 is very much a collector's car, but apparently the vast majority of 959's are illegal. In fact, I think only Otis Chandler and maybe 1 or 2 others have legal ones under the "Show and Display" law, which basically limits the number of miles you can drive on the car to 2500/yr.
If you're gonna give up the GT2, at least get an F40! It stomped all over the 959 and then some... and IMHO looks much better. Probably the best looking Ferrari of all time! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Hey, let's get together soon if you have time!
Why would you ever give up that beautiful GT2 of yours for a 959? The GT2 is faster, looks better, and is so much more modern. Granted, the 959 is very much a collector's car, but apparently the vast majority of 959's are illegal. In fact, I think only Otis Chandler and maybe 1 or 2 others have legal ones under the "Show and Display" law, which basically limits the number of miles you can drive on the car to 2500/yr.
If you're gonna give up the GT2, at least get an F40! It stomped all over the 959 and then some... and IMHO looks much better. Probably the best looking Ferrari of all time! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Hey, let's get together soon if you have time!
12-04-2002, 01:45 PM
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You can bring them in under the show and display rules.
<a href="http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/showdisplay/" target="_blank">http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/showdisplay/</a>
Roy
<a href="http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/showdisplay/" target="_blank">http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/showdisplay/</a>
Roy
12-04-2002, 01:47 PM
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The operative word was "if"...
But I have a question. What does the 20yr "classic rule" mean and how is it different than the show rule?
If in 2008 one will be able to drive a 959 all they want, then I sure wouldn't want to wait 'til 2008 to try and get one,because I have a feeling you'll see a price spike.
Honestly, it slays me that everyday there are about 10 million beat-up cars on the road that are 50 times more dangerous and more damaging to any atmosphere. I mean, DOT, give me a break, like a Ford Excursion is ok to drive and a 959 is not...
I'm happy to report the GT2 passed its smog test with flying colors.
But I have a question. What does the 20yr "classic rule" mean and how is it different than the show rule?
If in 2008 one will be able to drive a 959 all they want, then I sure wouldn't want to wait 'til 2008 to try and get one,because I have a feeling you'll see a price spike.
Honestly, it slays me that everyday there are about 10 million beat-up cars on the road that are 50 times more dangerous and more damaging to any atmosphere. I mean, DOT, give me a break, like a Ford Excursion is ok to drive and a 959 is not...
I'm happy to report the GT2 passed its smog test with flying colors.
12-04-2002, 01:51 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>Dean,
Why would you ever give up that beautiful GT2 of yours for a 959? The GT2 is faster, looks better, and is so much more modern. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaking of that... when are you going to take the plunge and pick up one of these ubiquitous 01/02 Turbos. When dealers are advertising 02s for 104, it kills me. Pick up an 02 for about 100k, put 30K in it, and you have an all world supercar...
Which reminds me, if you haven't been by By Design lately, you should see Matt's beast. He's got black wheels on it now. Unreal!
<strong>Dean,
Why would you ever give up that beautiful GT2 of yours for a 959? The GT2 is faster, looks better, and is so much more modern. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Speaking of that... when are you going to take the plunge and pick up one of these ubiquitous 01/02 Turbos. When dealers are advertising 02s for 104, it kills me. Pick up an 02 for about 100k, put 30K in it, and you have an all world supercar...
Which reminds me, if you haven't been by By Design lately, you should see Matt's beast. He's got black wheels on it now. Unreal!
12-04-2002, 01:53 PM
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Yes, but Porsche is mostly to blame for this one.
1. They refused to provide 4 test cars for the DOT crash tests.
2. Porsche has gone to court in a persistent effort to keep the 959 off U.S. roads.
You've gotta wonder why there is so much politics for such a rare car... <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
1. They refused to provide 4 test cars for the DOT crash tests.
2. Porsche has gone to court in a persistent effort to keep the 959 off U.S. roads.
You've gotta wonder why there is so much politics for such a rare car... <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
12-04-2002, 02:14 PM
#7
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hammann, those 4 porsche crashes would of cost porsche a pretty penny, and with the limited #'s of production it's a reasonable decision. They want to keep the cars of US roads because they feel they are unsafe for them. I think it's a good call on porsches side.
Deanger, in the recent autoweek there is a 959 for sale from a seller in AZ, it says that the car is driven on the street frequently. But he wants 275K
Deanger, in the recent autoweek there is a 959 for sale from a seller in AZ, it says that the car is driven on the street frequently. But he wants 275K
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12-04-2002, 02:46 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by soon2be993TT:
<strong>hammann, those 4 porsche crashes would of cost porsche a pretty penny, and with the limited #'s of production it's a reasonable decision. They want to keep the cars of US roads because they feel they are unsafe for them. I think it's a good call on porsches side.
Deanger, in the recent autoweek there is a 959 for sale from a seller in AZ, it says that the car is driven on the street frequently. But he wants 275K</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, Ferrari crashed several F40's to make those road legal in the U.S. Seeing as how Porsche has had much more financial strength than Ferrari, I think they easily could have done the same if they had wanted to. All they would have to do is increase 959 production by 1 or 2 cars to make back this money.
Why would a 959 be unsafe for US roads?
It's based on the 911 chassis.
<strong>hammann, those 4 porsche crashes would of cost porsche a pretty penny, and with the limited #'s of production it's a reasonable decision. They want to keep the cars of US roads because they feel they are unsafe for them. I think it's a good call on porsches side.
Deanger, in the recent autoweek there is a 959 for sale from a seller in AZ, it says that the car is driven on the street frequently. But he wants 275K</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, Ferrari crashed several F40's to make those road legal in the U.S. Seeing as how Porsche has had much more financial strength than Ferrari, I think they easily could have done the same if they had wanted to. All they would have to do is increase 959 production by 1 or 2 cars to make back this money.
Why would a 959 be unsafe for US roads?
It's based on the 911 chassis.
12-04-2002, 02:52 PM
#9
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[quote]Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>
Well, Ferrari crashed several F40's to make those road legal in the U.S. Seeing as how Porsche has had much more financial strength than Ferrari, I think they easily could have done the same if they had wanted to. All they would have to do is increase 959 production by 1 or 2 cars to make back this money.
Why would a 959 be unsafe for US roads? It's based on the 911 chassis.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that the only reason is the fact that Porsche lost money on every example of the 959, it's the only prototype in production I've ever heard of. There is a reason that it wasn't until the 996 GT2 that Porsche produced a car faster than the 959.
<strong>
Well, Ferrari crashed several F40's to make those road legal in the U.S. Seeing as how Porsche has had much more financial strength than Ferrari, I think they easily could have done the same if they had wanted to. All they would have to do is increase 959 production by 1 or 2 cars to make back this money.
Why would a 959 be unsafe for US roads?
It's based on the 911 chassis.</strong><hr></blockquote>I think that the only reason is the fact that Porsche lost money on every example of the 959, it's the only prototype in production I've ever heard of. There is a reason that it wasn't until the 996 GT2 that Porsche produced a car faster than the 959.
12-04-2002, 06:35 PM
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didn't ferrari lose a ton of money on the F40's too? I remember reading an article in the mid 90's and they had a picture of the factory and just a ton of f40's lined up because they couldn't sell them for some reason.
12-04-2002, 08:48 PM
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From what I have been told it costs Porsche twice as much to porduce the 959, then what they even sold them for. So Porsche lost at least 200% on each car they made, that is more then it cost Ferrari. You also have to remember, the late 80's and early 90's Porsche was losing money faster then Dick Cheaney takes Nitroglisern Pills.
12-04-2002, 09:54 PM
#13
Previous posts are correct. Porsche lost a bundle on each and every 959 sold. Ferrari made a ton on each and every f40, and f50, and Barchetta, and will clean up some more on the Enzo.
12-04-2002, 10:07 PM
#14
If you're going to spend $300K or so on a 959, why not order a new Ruf CTR2 Sport? I guarantee you'll never be bored with it. Then again, for less money, get an F40. You probably will not be bored with that either. Or, if you have the resources, pick up an F60 or a Carrera GT (or a McLaren). Surely you wouldn't be bored with these.
Of course, I'm not implying you're bored with your GT2
.
Of course, I'm not implying you're bored with your GT2
.
12-04-2002, 10:33 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Bill S.:
<strong>If you're going to spend $300K or so on a 959, why not order a new Ruf CTR2 Sport? I guarantee you'll never be bored with it. Then again, for less money, get an F40. You probably will not be bored with that either. Or, if you have the resources, pick up an F60 or a Carrera GT (or a McLaren). Surely you wouldn't be bored with these.
Of course, I'm not implying you're bored with your GT2 .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I'd prefer a 959 to all of those, as I am interested more as an afficianado. But I have no intention of actually buying one right now.
<strong>If you're going to spend $300K or so on a 959, why not order a new Ruf CTR2 Sport? I guarantee you'll never be bored with it. Then again, for less money, get an F40. You probably will not be bored with that either. Or, if you have the resources, pick up an F60 or a Carrera GT (or a McLaren). Surely you wouldn't be bored with these.
Of course, I'm not implying you're bored with your GT2
.</strong><hr></blockquote>Actually, I'd prefer a 959 to all of those, as I am interested more as an afficianado. But I have no intention of actually buying one right now.