Lost it in my GT 2 yesterday
04-30-2003, 01:14 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Deanger:
<strong>[QUOTE]That being said, I am not sure the GT3 will be the ultimate Canyon-Bomber. I think that would go to a car that has PSM.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That depends on how you drive. If you are a novice, yes... if you know how to drive a proper line, no.
PSM does not allow you to throttle steer the car or drift the car much.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually I disagree -- PSM allows you to do plenty of this. And with all due respect with yours and Watt's abilities, I think you are wrong on this. Watt's speed in his GT2 was due to the superior acceleration and braking of the GT2.
I am not sure actually why you think a GT3 or a GT2 is a good canyon car. I mean, they will do the job and be a ton of fun, but given the road conditions, uneven pavement, etc. I highly doubt if your goal was fastest time you would opt for either of these cars.
If your goal is most fun and basically as fast -- then I'd say the GT3 by a country mile!
Also -- FWIW that comment about the AWD in 959 and reliability is actually incorrect and based on an often repeated and misunderstood condition from the first few 959s. The AWD in the production run 959 is far more sophisticated and far more expensive, with its goal of infinitely variable torque splits. This is very useful in about .0001% of all non rally race conditions!
Also -- I think the ultimate Canyon Bomber would be the Nissan Skyline! I think THAT is the car you or someone should get!
Speaking of that -- When is your GT3 due?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Deanger:
<strong>[QUOTE]That being said, I am not sure the GT3 will be the ultimate Canyon-Bomber. I think that would go to a car that has PSM.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That depends on how you drive. If you are a novice, yes... if you know how to drive a proper line, no.
PSM does not allow you to throttle steer the car or drift the car much.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually I disagree -- PSM allows you to do plenty of this. And with all due respect with yours and Watt's abilities, I think you are wrong on this. Watt's speed in his GT2 was due to the superior acceleration and braking of the GT2.
I am not sure actually why you think a GT3 or a GT2 is a good canyon car. I mean, they will do the job and be a ton of fun, but given the road conditions, uneven pavement, etc. I highly doubt if your goal was fastest time you would opt for either of these cars.
If your goal is most fun and basically as fast -- then I'd say the GT3 by a country mile!
Also -- FWIW that comment about the AWD in 959 and reliability is actually incorrect and based on an often repeated and misunderstood condition from the first few 959s. The AWD in the production run 959 is far more sophisticated and far more expensive, with its goal of infinitely variable torque splits. This is very useful in about .0001% of all non rally race conditions!
Also -- I think the ultimate Canyon Bomber would be the Nissan Skyline! I think THAT is the car you or someone should get!
Speaking of that -- When is your GT3 due?
04-30-2003, 02:24 PM
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No dealers in California have gotten actual allocations yet beyond the #1 cars.
I am #4 at Beverly Hills and #2 at McKenna for the GT3.
Last time I checked, the GT3 accelerated faster than a 996TT, and I have no doubt it will outbrake it with the lighter weight, lighter unsprung weight, and PCCB.
You say superior braking and acceleration are the reasons why the GT2 is faster. Well the GT3 is a little slower than the GT2, but it brakes better and it handles better. Imagine the razor sharp response of the GT2 without the scary on-power boost that wraps the car around. More linear power that lets you know what the car is doing at all times.
I quote Excellence, "So each opportunity to try out the massive PCCB ceramic brakes-- which work even more effectively on the lighter GT3 than they do on 911 GT2s or Turbos.... The only concessions to active safety are the best handling you could ask for and ABS brakes....The new GT3 will bring the hard-edged excitement of the 911 GT2 to North American shors -- BUT WITH EVEN BETTER BALANCE."
I can't see how you can think a 996TT would be a better canyon car than a GT3... but I guess we can find out. Once our GT3s come in, we'll arrange another canyon run and convince watt to come with his and you will see for yourself which cars will rule the windy roads.
On the track, there is no contest, given a good driver, the GT3 will kick the Turbos ***. Remember Walter Rohrl saying that the new GT3 would lap the 'Ring in 7:50 or less? That's 7 seconds faster than the best time for a 996TT and within striking distance of a GT2 with 80 less horse.
As far as the Skyline goes, it is an ok car. The AWD system, like on virtually every other AWD car, tends to understeer and be non-communicative through the corner. But it's still a cheaply built Nissan. Think Nissan Sentra with carbon fiber, and that describes the interior build quality. There are now left hand drive versions of this car in the aftermarket, but again, a GT3 with its strong NA motor is the superior platform. Turbo cars are turbo cars.
I don't think the PSK is overkill at all. As far as reliability is concerned, almost every 959 is a low mileage example, so I guess you can tell us how reliable the car will be in the long run. As far as this system in the 964, there were all sorts of problems with it. I also forgot to mention that another reason why Porsche went to the mechanical system is that the AWD system in your car and the 964 C4 was extremely heavy. That's price you pay for sophistication, although when it works, it makes the car stick the road like velcro.
BTW, you know I left a message for you recently right?
I am #4 at Beverly Hills and #2 at McKenna for the GT3.
Last time I checked, the GT3 accelerated faster than a 996TT, and I have no doubt it will outbrake it with the lighter weight, lighter unsprung weight, and PCCB.
You say superior braking and acceleration are the reasons why the GT2 is faster. Well the GT3 is a little slower than the GT2, but it brakes better and it handles better. Imagine the razor sharp response of the GT2 without the scary on-power boost that wraps the car around. More linear power that lets you know what the car is doing at all times.
I quote Excellence, "So each opportunity to try out the massive PCCB ceramic brakes-- which work even more effectively on the lighter GT3 than they do on 911 GT2s or Turbos.... The only concessions to active safety are the best handling you could ask for and ABS brakes....The new GT3 will bring the hard-edged excitement of the 911 GT2 to North American shors -- BUT WITH EVEN BETTER BALANCE."
I can't see how you can think a 996TT would be a better canyon car than a GT3... but I guess we can find out. Once our GT3s come in, we'll arrange another canyon run and convince watt to come with his and you will see for yourself which cars will rule the windy roads.
On the track, there is no contest, given a good driver, the GT3 will kick the Turbos ***. Remember Walter Rohrl saying that the new GT3 would lap the 'Ring in 7:50 or less? That's 7 seconds faster than the best time for a 996TT and within striking distance of a GT2 with 80 less horse.
As far as the Skyline goes, it is an ok car. The AWD system, like on virtually every other AWD car, tends to understeer and be non-communicative through the corner. But it's still a cheaply built Nissan. Think Nissan Sentra with carbon fiber, and that describes the interior build quality. There are now left hand drive versions of this car in the aftermarket, but again, a GT3 with its strong NA motor is the superior platform. Turbo cars are turbo cars.
I don't think the PSK is overkill at all. As far as reliability is concerned, almost every 959 is a low mileage example, so I guess you can tell us how reliable the car will be in the long run. As far as this system in the 964, there were all sorts of problems with it. I also forgot to mention that another reason why Porsche went to the mechanical system is that the AWD system in your car and the 964 C4 was extremely heavy. That's price you pay for sophistication, although when it works, it makes the car stick the road like velcro.
BTW, you know I left a message for you recently right?
04-30-2003, 02:40 PM
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Agree the GT3 will be a superior performer to the GT2 in a lot of arenas, if not all. What color are you going to get?
Reason I think TT (especially modified) will be a better Canyon Bomber is because I have visions of you going deep into one of those rutted corners and losing the car, whereas a PSM car will be saved. This comes from my GT2 drives; admittedly, the GT3 may not have such problems.
Can't wait to see your car!
Reason I think TT (especially modified) will be a better Canyon Bomber is because I have visions of you going deep into one of those rutted corners and losing the car, whereas a PSM car will be saved. This comes from my GT2 drives; admittedly, the GT3 may not have such problems.
Can't wait to see your car!
04-30-2003, 02:47 PM
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Thinking Lapis Blue or Midnight Blue.
Black leather, carbon interior, maritime blue belts.
That's before I get some guys to hack it up and make some mods to it.
I talked to a race school up at Willow that races a GT3 Cup car and they told me that after a weekend or two with them, I will pretty much know the limits of the car intuitively. I hope they are right.
Black leather, carbon interior, maritime blue belts.
That's before I get some guys to hack it up and make some mods to it.
I talked to a race school up at Willow that races a GT3 Cup car and they told me that after a weekend or two with them, I will pretty much know the limits of the car intuitively. I hope they are right.
04-30-2003, 06:34 PM
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I'm sure it's been said before but GT2s are seriously raw, powerful rwd cars and unfortunately many Porsche Drivers simply do not realise the skill necessary to tame such a car.
Sadly here in England a GT2 driver was killed in the last couple of days, whilst taking his children out for a drive in his new car (they fortunately survived).
Guy
Sadly here in England a GT2 driver was killed in the last couple of days, whilst taking his children out for a drive in his new car (they fortunately survived).
Guy
04-30-2003, 06:45 PM
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Oh and just to answer a few Skyline points, since they were raised:
It doesn't ever understeer, since it's not permanent awd. It runs 100% rwd, until the computer detects wheel slip then progessvely proportions up to 50% to the front wheels depending on yaw-rate, lateral and horizontal acceleration etc. It gets into power-slides like a rwd and holds them like an awd. It does catch out a lot of new owners who expect the car to drive itself though.
There are also no lhd versions, except a couple of very dodgy home-made specials in Dubai.
Also an allegedly stock R33 did a 7:56 at the ring driven by Dirk Schoysmen (although I personally have my doubts it was entirely stock).
Just a couple of points, sorry if I took the thread off topic.
Guy
It doesn't ever understeer, since it's not permanent awd. It runs 100% rwd, until the computer detects wheel slip then progessvely proportions up to 50% to the front wheels depending on yaw-rate, lateral and horizontal acceleration etc. It gets into power-slides like a rwd and holds them like an awd. It does catch out a lot of new owners who expect the car to drive itself though.
There are also no lhd versions, except a couple of very dodgy home-made specials in Dubai.
Also an allegedly stock R33 did a 7:56 at the ring driven by Dirk Schoysmen (although I personally have my doubts it was entirely stock).
Just a couple of points, sorry if I took the thread off topic.
Guy
04-30-2003, 06:48 PM
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Zamirez,
Thats what I read in the morning papers yesterday (i'll try to find an online version). I can only guess he had one of them in the back (though I know how difficult it would be, my 993 RS has similar fixed bucket seats).
Guy
Thats what I read in the morning papers yesterday (i'll try to find an online version). I can only guess he had one of them in the back (though I know how difficult it would be, my 993 RS has similar fixed bucket seats).
Guy
04-30-2003, 08:46 PM
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GuyR,
A couple of points to address here:
The GT2 has NO BACK SEATS! So that means the kid was sitting on some carpet hump with no cushion?
I am surprised that the driver died. The 911 is supposed to be a pretty safe car. I guess we need to weld in a padded rollcage...
Second, there are indeed LHD Skylines here in California. Wilber and I sat in one at the Long Beach GP a couple of weeks ago. They are converted by a shop called Skyline Motoring, which buys cars from Motorex, then converts them to LHD.
Also the best time for the Skyline you are talking about was 7:59, and all evidence indicates that this car was nowhere close to stock. The 2000 GT3 STILL bettered that time by 3 seconds. The new one will beat it by around 10 seconds.
I will take your word for it that it doesn't understeer. It just doesn't handle like a Porsche, which can be a good or bad thing.
First of all, the Skyline that ran the 7:59 did not have a speed limiter. Second of all, when Autocar tested an untweaked production version it did 8:28. It's pretty obvious that Nissan turned up the boost and tweaked with the rear steering and suspension settings to get it to that time.
I can bet you that given equal good drivers, a GT3 will beat your R34 around the 'Ring. If you lived out here, I would love to take on your R34 with a GT3, but it sounds like it's more suited for drag racing based on the way you have it set up.
Not saying that the Skyline isn't a good sports car. The GT3 is simply better, a lot better. A modern day version of your 993RS.
Please don't tell me that you think your R34 is a better sports car than the 993RS!
A couple of points to address here:
The GT2 has NO BACK SEATS! So that means the kid was sitting on some carpet hump with no cushion?
I am surprised that the driver died. The 911 is supposed to be a pretty safe car. I guess we need to weld in a padded rollcage...
Second, there are indeed LHD Skylines here in California. Wilber and I sat in one at the Long Beach GP a couple of weeks ago. They are converted by a shop called Skyline Motoring, which buys cars from Motorex, then converts them to LHD.
Also the best time for the Skyline you are talking about was 7:59, and all evidence indicates that this car was nowhere close to stock. The 2000 GT3 STILL bettered that time by 3 seconds. The new one will beat it by around 10 seconds.
I will take your word for it that it doesn't understeer. It just doesn't handle like a Porsche, which can be a good or bad thing.
First of all, the Skyline that ran the 7:59 did not have a speed limiter. Second of all, when Autocar tested an untweaked production version it did 8:28. It's pretty obvious that Nissan turned up the boost and tweaked with the rear steering and suspension settings to get it to that time.
I can bet you that given equal good drivers, a GT3 will beat your R34 around the 'Ring. If you lived out here, I would love to take on your R34 with a GT3, but it sounds like it's more suited for drag racing based on the way you have it set up.
Not saying that the Skyline isn't a good sports car. The GT3 is simply better, a lot better. A modern day version of your 993RS.
Please don't tell me that you think your R34 is a better sports car than the 993RS!
04-30-2003, 08:50 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by watt:
<strong>i'll bet a box of Hoyas de Monterey Epicure #2 right now I'm faster in the canyons in the gt2.
Takers [i won't sandbag].
One word: TORQUE</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'll bet you a pack of Marlboro Lights that you are even faster in the GT3 once you get used to it.
One word: BALANCE
OK, make that a carton of cigs, your choice. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
<strong>i'll bet a box of Hoyas de Monterey Epicure #2 right now I'm faster in the canyons in the gt2.
Takers [i won't sandbag].
One word: TORQUE</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'll bet you a pack of Marlboro Lights that you are even faster in the GT3 once you get used to it.
One word: BALANCE
OK, make that a carton of cigs, your choice. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
04-30-2003, 08:57 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by watt:
<strong>i'll bet a box of Hoyas de Monterey Epicure #2 right now I'm faster in the canyons in the gt2.
Takers [i won't sandbag].
One word: TORQUE</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm not betting, but I want one of those cigars. Great smokes.
<strong>i'll bet a box of Hoyas de Monterey Epicure #2 right now I'm faster in the canyons in the gt2.
Takers [i won't sandbag].
One word: TORQUE</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm not betting, but I want one of those cigars. Great smokes.
04-30-2003, 09:23 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>I talked to a race school up at Willow that races a GT3 Cup car and they told me that after a weekend or two with them, I will pretty much know the limits of the car intuitively. I hope they are right.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yep, you sure will be. All it takes is ...
Edited by John D.
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<strong>I talked to a race school up at Willow that races a GT3 Cup car and they told me that after a weekend or two with them, I will pretty much know the limits of the car intuitively. I hope they are right.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yep, you sure will be. All it takes is ...
Edited by John D.
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04-30-2003, 10:27 PM
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Geez Greg Fishman, ....
Edited by John D.
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Edited by John D.
Hi - please e-mail privately so I can understand this post... I really don't take well to Flames on the Forums.
You can e-mail me at admin@rennlist.com or johnd@rennlist.com
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