PSI 996TT dyno results
12-12-2005, 04:44 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by RobCS
Ok I found some official information concerning PSI Motorsport.
They voluntary laid down the books in August. A report of the official revisor states that they had a negative balance-sheet of 888.000 Euro , that's over one million dollar.
You can read all about it in the official collection of the laws of Belgium.
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv...sv_sum_a_f.htm
click on Autre Sommaire , then click on 2005-09-02 , then click on PSI Motorsport.
A new company with a new owner was founded with the name PSI Experience , click on 2005-10-10
Too bad they had to go down this way.
I wish them all the best with their company.
They voluntary laid down the books in August. A report of the official revisor states that they had a negative balance-sheet of 888.000 Euro , that's over one million dollar.
You can read all about it in the official collection of the laws of Belgium.
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/tsv...sv_sum_a_f.htm
click on Autre Sommaire , then click on 2005-09-02 , then click on PSI Motorsport.
A new company with a new owner was founded with the name PSI Experience , click on 2005-10-10
Too bad they had to go down this way.
I wish them all the best with their company.
Ah well.
12-12-2005, 05:39 PM
#107
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As of November 16 all the team's car were for sale and the company was reorganizing under Phillip Tillie -- Motorsports.com.
So who was responsible for the chip-tuning at PSI? I've been trying to piece together who does what and who just plunked down the cash for a damos editor from Bosch or another provider? I'm pretty sure the following people went through the trouble of actually (at least originally) disassembling the eproms/roms and providing their services commercially; Garrett @ Giac, Todd & EE friend @ Protomotive, Jim Conforti @ bunch of places, Geoff @ AMD and Gunther @ Sportec & bunch of places. Does anyone know of others?
So who was responsible for the chip-tuning at PSI? I've been trying to piece together who does what and who just plunked down the cash for a damos editor from Bosch or another provider? I'm pretty sure the following people went through the trouble of actually (at least originally) disassembling the eproms/roms and providing their services commercially; Garrett @ Giac, Todd & EE friend @ Protomotive, Jim Conforti @ bunch of places, Geoff @ AMD and Gunther @ Sportec & bunch of places. Does anyone know of others?
12-13-2005, 03:30 AM
#108
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Originally Posted by sharkster
Hey Woodster... if you look http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...threadid=38341 at this thread it was an owner of 969-Collintt... I don't know the ins and outs of why though- not my business obviously. I'm just hoping it wasn't due to the incorrectly mapped software and other mods is all.
I did substituted the GIAC program with PSI 480 after that, but I only drove the PSI car for about 2 weeks.
What happened was a valve stem broke and shot through the engine cover. Yep. It was not a pretty sight or sound. The computer scan at Carlsen showed 1400 over-revs, probably over a time of nearly a year, which is how long I've had the GIA programming. The chief mechanic suspects the rev limit was raised by the non-factory software.
I didn't say anything to you then because I have no conclusive proof that the engine failure was caused by the GIAC software. The excessive over-revs was concerning to me though. I never miss a gear on downshifts. The over-revs were not that type anyway. These are accelerating over-revs. I never rev past redline either. I still don't know how could the engine have registered so many over-revs. I'm also not certain if that has anything to do with the broken valve. Maybe my engine was weakened over time. I'd like to see other GIAC cars getting scanned to verify the over-rev symtom.
Whatever it was, I'm confident it's not due to PSI programming. The 480 package is powerful but not that powerful to break an engine like that. Mike's 550 car is much much more powerful and his is still running fine.
So there you have it. Don't jump to conclusion just from a blurp. It's not fair to other vendors to second guess. I have heard a few cars with GIAC programs having problems too. You don't hear me commenting about them in the open because it's not my business.
12-13-2005, 06:05 AM
#109
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Originally Posted by PorschePhD
You have to know what you are looking at in order to interpret what it means. This is the problem with this industry. People bolt things on with no understanding what they are looking at. This is an example of just that. There was more emphasis to get the number out. That is what they saw, nothing else. The chart spoke of another issue. It is not meant to be a dig at them in any capacity, but the bottom line is the term "tuner" is rather loose. In this case the "tuner" from Belgium should probably be on the next flight to the US to support their new market. We spent the first several years flying all over the US to reprogram peoples ECU after the fact. That learning curve is huge. And just when you think that is might be ok something will change in the setup. You are at it all over again. In one year I was in 4 different states on some strange dyno interpenetrating and correcting issues. If you don't know what an issue looks like then how can one identify it? You don't.
12-13-2005, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by collin996tt
Alex. Yes it was my car that needed an engine replacement. It was only a couple weeks after I repeatedly tested the pull of the GIAC program from 4k rpm to 6k rpm from 2nd gear to 5th gear that I experienced engine problems.
I did substituted the GIAC program with PSI 480 after that, but I only drove the PSI car for about 2 weeks.
What happened was a valve stem broke and shot through the engine cover. Yep. It was not a pretty sight or sound. The computer scan at Carlsen showed 1400 over-revs, probably over a time of nearly a year, which is how long I've had the GIA programming. The chief mechanic suspects the rev limit was raised by the non-factory software.
I didn't say anything to you then because I have no conclusive proof that the engine failure was caused by the GIAC software. The excessive over-revs was concerning to me though. I never miss a gear on downshifts. The over-revs were not that type anyway. These are accelerating over-revs. I never rev past redline either. I still don't know how could the engine have registered so many over-revs. I'm also not certain if that has anything to do with the broken valve. Maybe my engine was weakened over time. I'd like to see other GIAC cars getting scanned to verify the over-rev symtom.
Whatever it was, I'm confident it's not due to PSI programming. The 480 package is powerful but not that powerful to break an engine like that. Mike's 550 car is much much more powerful and his is still running fine.
So there you have it. Don't jump to conclusion just from a blurp. It's not fair to other vendors to second guess. I have heard a few cars with GIAC programs having problems too. You don't hear me commenting about them in the open because it's not my business.
I did substituted the GIAC program with PSI 480 after that, but I only drove the PSI car for about 2 weeks.
What happened was a valve stem broke and shot through the engine cover. Yep. It was not a pretty sight or sound. The computer scan at Carlsen showed 1400 over-revs, probably over a time of nearly a year, which is how long I've had the GIA programming. The chief mechanic suspects the rev limit was raised by the non-factory software.
I didn't say anything to you then because I have no conclusive proof that the engine failure was caused by the GIAC software. The excessive over-revs was concerning to me though. I never miss a gear on downshifts. The over-revs were not that type anyway. These are accelerating over-revs. I never rev past redline either. I still don't know how could the engine have registered so many over-revs. I'm also not certain if that has anything to do with the broken valve. Maybe my engine was weakened over time. I'd like to see other GIAC cars getting scanned to verify the over-rev symtom.
Whatever it was, I'm confident it's not due to PSI programming. The 480 package is powerful but not that powerful to break an engine like that. Mike's 550 car is much much more powerful and his is still running fine.
So there you have it. Don't jump to conclusion just from a blurp. It's not fair to other vendors to second guess. I have heard a few cars with GIAC programs having problems too. You don't hear me commenting about them in the open because it's not my business.
About associating reliability problems with Giac software or any other software is very difficult to establish unless the messes up with the knock sensor operation but then the engine will show detonation signs such as pitted piston crowns (sometimes with holes).
12-13-2005, 09:50 AM
#111
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Originally Posted by Kiko
I wonder if you can request Giac to leave your rev limiter alone when fiddling with the software
An over Rev limit as mentioned by Kiko is counted in the system as two types. Mechanical and electrical over rev. The eclectic over rev is caused by reading the car. Meaning you launch the car and keep it in gear until you go "oops" the car stopped pulling I am at red line. It will count these. It would also count if the rev limiter was raised and you passed the OEM limiter mark. Either will count. Again, GIAC does not raise the limits on the program. This is done for obvious reasons. Even in a stock mode the data is logged therefore you can not raise the limiter in performance mode either, those could be counted.
The second type of counts is mechanical. Meaning that the TPS was not detected at 100% and the RPM reached its OEM limit. The scenario of this would be an aggressive down shift and allowing the car to over rev for a second, or a tire spin and you let off the throttle causing the TPS to drop and the RPM to hit Over rev. There are also a few tricky situations caused by aggressive driving that will trip this.
What was the number (type) of RL that the PST2 counted? It would have not been from an electric over rev from a raised limit. You would have not had that from the GIAC software.
Both types are counted as different types in the Porsche System Tester. We have one her in the shop so I have seen just about every cause that there is to trip these. There are a few other things that will cause it that is not relevant to this thread, but will still flash the count.
12-13-2005, 10:27 AM
#112
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Here is what we look at. The VIN has been removed for obvious reasons. This car is in for a flash to GIAC. It currently has another tuners program in it.
12-13-2005, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
So who was responsible for the chip-tuning at PSI? I've been trying to piece together who does what and who just plunked down the cash for a damos editor from Bosch or another provider? I'm pretty sure the following people went through the trouble of actually (at least originally) disassembling the eproms/roms and providing their services commercially; Garrett @ Giac, Todd & EE friend @ Protomotive, Jim Conforti @ bunch of places, Geoff @ AMD and Gunther @ Sportec & bunch of places. Does anyone know of others?
12-13-2005, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by collin996tt
Alex. Yes it was my car that needed an engine replacement. It was only a couple weeks after I repeatedly tested the pull of the GIAC program from 4k rpm to 6k rpm from 2nd gear to 5th gear that I experienced engine problems.
I did substituted the GIAC program with PSI 480 after that, but I only drove the PSI car for about 2 weeks.
What happened was a valve stem broke and shot through the engine cover. Yep. It was not a pretty sight or sound. The computer scan at Carlsen showed 1400 over-revs, probably over a time of nearly a year, which is how long I've had the GIA programming. The chief mechanic suspects the rev limit was raised by the non-factory software.
I didn't say anything to you then because I have no conclusive proof that the engine failure was caused by the GIAC software. The excessive over-revs was concerning to me though. I never miss a gear on downshifts. The over-revs were not that type anyway. These are accelerating over-revs. I never rev past redline either. I still don't know how could the engine have registered so many over-revs. I'm also not certain if that has anything to do with the broken valve. Maybe my engine was weakened over time. I'd like to see other GIAC cars getting scanned to verify the over-rev symtom.
Whatever it was, I'm confident it's not due to PSI programming. The 480 package is powerful but not that powerful to break an engine like that. Mike's 550 car is much much more powerful and his is still running fine.
So there you have it. Don't jump to conclusion just from a blurp. It's not fair to other vendors to second guess. I have heard a few cars with GIAC programs having problems too. You don't hear me commenting about them in the open because it's not my business.
I did substituted the GIAC program with PSI 480 after that, but I only drove the PSI car for about 2 weeks.
What happened was a valve stem broke and shot through the engine cover. Yep. It was not a pretty sight or sound. The computer scan at Carlsen showed 1400 over-revs, probably over a time of nearly a year, which is how long I've had the GIA programming. The chief mechanic suspects the rev limit was raised by the non-factory software.
I didn't say anything to you then because I have no conclusive proof that the engine failure was caused by the GIAC software. The excessive over-revs was concerning to me though. I never miss a gear on downshifts. The over-revs were not that type anyway. These are accelerating over-revs. I never rev past redline either. I still don't know how could the engine have registered so many over-revs. I'm also not certain if that has anything to do with the broken valve. Maybe my engine was weakened over time. I'd like to see other GIAC cars getting scanned to verify the over-rev symtom.
Whatever it was, I'm confident it's not due to PSI programming. The 480 package is powerful but not that powerful to break an engine like that. Mike's 550 car is much much more powerful and his is still running fine.
So there you have it. Don't jump to conclusion just from a blurp. It's not fair to other vendors to second guess. I have heard a few cars with GIAC programs having problems too. You don't hear me commenting about them in the open because it's not my business.
I think you are one of the VERY few people on this thread that is QUALIFIED to comment on PSI and GIAC. You have used those products. I commend you on your fair and even statements.
Unfortunately we have 6-7 pages of PSI bashing, mostly from other tuners/vendors and their "associates". What do you think their motivation is?
I don't have GIAC or PSI so maybe I should just shut up!
I talked to Neil Orton today, I have known him from back in the Roock days. His PSI office is 10-15 min from me. He is very upset over the witchunt atmosphere on this thread and 6speed! I told him that he still has supporters. I am taking my car in to him for a Spark plug /oil change.
12-13-2005, 05:48 PM
#116
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Originally Posted by RXDOC
Collin:
I think you are one of the VERY few people on this thread that is QUALIFIED to comment on PSI and GIAC. You have used those products. I commend you on your fair and even statements.
Unfortunately we have 6-7 pages of PSI bashing, mostly from other tuners/vendors and their "associates". What do you think their motivation is?
I don't have GIAC or PSI so maybe I should just shut up!
I talked to Neil Orton today, I have known him from back in the Roock days. His PSI office is 10-15 min from me. He is very upset over the witchunt atmosphere on this thread and 6speed! I told him that he still has supporters. I am taking my car in to him for a Spark plug /oil change.
I think you are one of the VERY few people on this thread that is QUALIFIED to comment on PSI and GIAC. You have used those products. I commend you on your fair and even statements.
Unfortunately we have 6-7 pages of PSI bashing, mostly from other tuners/vendors and their "associates". What do you think their motivation is?
I don't have GIAC or PSI so maybe I should just shut up!
I talked to Neil Orton today, I have known him from back in the Roock days. His PSI office is 10-15 min from me. He is very upset over the witchunt atmosphere on this thread and 6speed! I told him that he still has supporters. I am taking my car in to him for a Spark plug /oil change.
I too have met him. I know its business, and it seem's the buzzards are circling. I can see business's competing and tauting their systems. But the bashing would turn me off as a potential customer.
Let those in the tuning business that haven't had any problems cast the first stone.
BTW,...RX,...you better get some more HP before our next DE.....
.........Oh, and turn the damn camera on this time would you? 
12-13-2005, 06:25 PM
#117
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The sad thing is the original posting has been lost. Should one keep to the facts regardless of the character integrity issues the factual events that have taken place on this board and in this market still stand. Bottom line is if we look to the facts and the misconceptions of the business you will see that truly little bashing is going on.
Neil can not answer these threads because he was banned from this board.
However on other boards the original questions could be answered and continue to be brushed aside. There is no need to beat a dead horse these issues probably will not be answered. Again, many of us have had issues, new products will have that. It is how you deal with them that separate the “tuners” apart in this industry. If you are not in a technical position to correct them then you better get the guy that is. Again, stick with the facts and the story will remain clear.
Neil can not answer these threads because he was banned from this board.
However on other boards the original questions could be answered and continue to be brushed aside. There is no need to beat a dead horse these issues probably will not be answered. Again, many of us have had issues, new products will have that. It is how you deal with them that separate the “tuners” apart in this industry. If you are not in a technical position to correct them then you better get the guy that is. Again, stick with the facts and the story will remain clear.
12-13-2005, 06:31 PM
#118
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Originally Posted by RXDOC
Collin:
I think you are one of the VERY few people on this thread that is QUALIFIED to comment on PSI and GIAC. You have used those products. I commend you on your fair and even statements.
Unfortunately we have 6-7 pages of PSI bashing, mostly from other tuners/vendors and their "associates". What do you think their motivation is?
I don't have GIAC or PSI so maybe I should just shut up!
I talked to Neil Orton today, I have known him from back in the Roock days. His PSI office is 10-15 min from me. He is very upset over the witchunt atmosphere on this thread and 6speed! I told him that he still has supporters. I am taking my car in to him for a Spark plug /oil change.
I think you are one of the VERY few people on this thread that is QUALIFIED to comment on PSI and GIAC. You have used those products. I commend you on your fair and even statements.
Unfortunately we have 6-7 pages of PSI bashing, mostly from other tuners/vendors and their "associates". What do you think their motivation is?
I don't have GIAC or PSI so maybe I should just shut up!
I talked to Neil Orton today, I have known him from back in the Roock days. His PSI office is 10-15 min from me. He is very upset over the witchunt atmosphere on this thread and 6speed! I told him that he still has supporters. I am taking my car in to him for a Spark plug /oil change.
As far as being "QUALIFIED to comment on PSI and GIAC", I've used both Protomotive and GIAC programming on my own cars, but it doesn't exactly make me qualified to discuss the technical aspects. For the technical stuff, I rely on reading insight from experienced tuner's like PorschePhd and Sharkwerks.
12-13-2005, 06:38 PM
#119
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I got to be honest here, this whole thing with PSI (Orton) sucks BIGTIME!
Ever since that thread with "Unhappy with Neil" on the other forum, the guy has taken a **** load of abuse (I ain't takin about just the refund) Taking about his livelyhood here!
What's really unprofessional is the way Stephen (I think) at Imagine constanly refers back to this issue with the printout!!! Take it like it is, I aint tryin to **** you off mate (I don't really know you and don't really care) but you keep mentioning this and it seems like when the guy is gettin enough crap you are twistin the knife even further! You can't deny that there is an atmosphere between you guys, everyone can see it!!!
I love these forums for the great advice it gives, but if it's gonna be bull**** like this and slagging off companies it just puts users in a crap mood and I personally can't be arsed with it!
I'm just being honest here! and I ain't to bothered what anybody comes back with, it just sucks that certain people cant get on with each other! CHILDISH NONSENSE FULLSTOP
Ever since that thread with "Unhappy with Neil" on the other forum, the guy has taken a **** load of abuse (I ain't takin about just the refund) Taking about his livelyhood here!
What's really unprofessional is the way Stephen (I think) at Imagine constanly refers back to this issue with the printout!!! Take it like it is, I aint tryin to **** you off mate (I don't really know you and don't really care) but you keep mentioning this and it seems like when the guy is gettin enough crap you are twistin the knife even further! You can't deny that there is an atmosphere between you guys, everyone can see it!!!
I love these forums for the great advice it gives, but if it's gonna be bull**** like this and slagging off companies it just puts users in a crap mood and I personally can't be arsed with it!
I'm just being honest here! and I ain't to bothered what anybody comes back with, it just sucks that certain people cant get on with each other! CHILDISH NONSENSE FULLSTOP
