lexpro

It is amazing: a product's characteristics are being criticized and some people don't like that. Speaking for myself, I am grateful to have the information provided by Stephen and others. It is an appeal to ignorance to discourage discussions about graphs, quarter mile times or any other data. Bring on the data and let the arguments flourish.

Woodster

We are only discouraging discussions which are openly bashing tuner/suppliers with no reason
for doing so. The thread went way, way O.T. and then went downhill besides. Like I said,
bashing a product, a company, a person as a result of a dip on a graph which was intended
to show exactly what was put down onto the dyno rollers on that day---NOT A MASSAGED
dyno graph which is more commonly posted or "posing" on websites as "actual" horsepower
you will have when you bolt on XXabc kit/X00. I have not seen one American company that
has realistic horsepower #s on their website, maybe the "truth seekers" should be attacking
some of this bulls*&@t. Now having said that show me some 1/4 mile times, 60-130mph
times or similar that shows "real power" , not "marketing power". I bought PSI 480 kit,
how much power do I expect ??? 480 not 500, or 505, etc, 480, which is realistic with the
little anemic K-16's my car...

PorscheDoc

How much more real do you need? Is this good enough, or should i shoot video of opening the mustang dyno program, pulling up the sheet, printing the sheet out, while looking at it on the screen, etc. Let me know, I can do whatever. I suppose i can shoot some very high resolution large pictures to make things clearer?

Shark

Marty,
I respect you a great deal but disagree on your interpretation of the facts.

FACT: Speed-daddy mis-represented himself

FACT: PSI Europe is Freakin OUT OF BUSINESS!!! Doesn't it bother you that Neil or 969 has made no mention of this?

FACT: Another poster made an *** of himself and threw gasoline on the fire

In my opinion, this thread is quite neccessary. After the BS, I'd like to know who is on the up and up. These products cost alot of duckets, and I have to make all mine count living so close to the Porsche poverty line

markski

Im on my second tuning ecu on my 996tt... with lots of miles. First of all, I think its very hard to create a product(prograM) taht will act the same way in every car all over the country when put on different dynos. A generic program is never going to be ideal... unless they tune it on ur car- thats my opinion.
Why so many guys complain that after coming back from the dyno... they had poor results. A dip.
If I lived near Stephen, EVoms, or the west coast... I know my car would a whole lot faster... but its not because I dont have a tuner taht can fix the issues near by. they are all resellers... that it.
Ive seen bad things happen to engines with very popular programs.. and Ive seen blown head gaskets with cheap $500 chips. I still believe that there are a few real tuners like IA, Evoms, protomotive, dan @speed G, alex.... taht take pride in what they do and go out of the way to make things right. .. and they have in my case.

sharkster

Busted.. you said you gave up Stogies? What the heck...

So we've got dynos, plenty (and I do mean plenty) of timeslips, shoot outs and such... The stuff we have _is_ solid and I do stand behind it. I wouldn't use it on my car otherwise. I've had everything from Stage II- GT800 (plus) in 2.5 years on my high mileage TT.... Ran anything from 11.6, 11.1, 10.9, 10.8, 10.7 and 10.6 in the 1/4 mile.

PorschePhD

Hmm, um, that is a ball point pen

Ok, so I have about one a month. I don't have to spar until Tues and I will run tomorrow

alex911s

LOL

sharkster

I will run tomorrow too.. but at the drag strip Just tried out some "new" plugs.. we'll see. I just can't give up running high boost and leaded gas

markski

whats high boost alex? 30 psi?

Craig.

Your desire to defend PSI is understandable (given that you are a customer) and admirable. However, you do not advance PSI’s cause by repeatedly denigrating American tuners. Your factually unsupported accusations that American tuners universally massage dyno results is getting stale. If you have FACTS/PROOF to support your assertion, please post it and reveal the unscrupulous and deceptive business owners. Otherwise, your bald speculation is meaningless. Moreover, to the extent that you have evidence that one American tuner is guilty of such practices, do not accuse ALL American tuners of doing the same.

I do not know where you get you your info, but I have never seen EVO MS suggest a 32% drive train loss. To the contrary, they estimate 12-15% drive train loss, and use a 12.5% figure for their calculations: http://www.evoms.com/dyno%20explain.htm .

I have seen several posted times from American tuned cars, including Sharky’s 10.6 ¼ mile time slip. I am also aware of a faster American tuned 996TT, although I am not at liberty to share the time slip results. Conversely, I do not recall seeing ANY time slips for a PSI tuned cars.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. As set forth above, you regularly “bash tuners.” If you think this practice is inappropriate (I certainly agree), lead by example and cease your unproductive bashing.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice (e.g., unsubstantiated hearsay and bull*#@t re: American tuners massaging dyno results).

A few weeks back, you asked me how much hp I was making. I responded with a gross “guesstimate.” I expressly stated that I have never dynoed my car and I do not know what the actual power is. Nevertheless, pursuant to YOUR request, I made a “guess.” I didn’t post my guess sua sponte, in order to beat my chest. Rather, I made my guess because YOU asked me to.

During the past month, you have made several posts surreptitiously disparaging me based on the “guesstimate” that I attempted pursuant to your request (the above post being the most recent example). Previously, I bit my tongue, and declined to respond, in order to avoid unnecessary hostility. Well, I’ve bit my tongue long enough! Please refrain from further derogatory comments directed at me (including poorly veiled references). I may not be making 950 hp at the crank. In fact, I may be making considerably less power. However, regardless of whether it is 950 hp or 750 hp, it is plenty fast (and MUCH faster than your self-proclaimed “IT RIPS” PSI 480).

One final note: I have not joined the PSI dog-pile in this thread, nor criticized PSI elsewhere, and I have no comment regarding the PSI dyno that started this thread (I will defer to the experts). As far as I know, PSI produces a fine product.

Craig

Jean

This thread reminds me of the streets of Beirut in 1975, you don't know who is shooting at who.

I think it is admirable that it has sustained a certain decency despite the seriousness of some issues discussed and the repercussions that are now clear to many of us, this is what I like about this board.

I must admit that the 950hp thread was a bit "light" in its content and not having a dyno chart is almost funny, after having spent so much effort and money developing the car. No acceleration numbers either I gather. One has to expect a reaction from other posters when such claims are made and them requesting some sort of support.

Karl, no pun intended, but you sound like speedaddy when you post these pictures of your dyno charts.

I don't want to divert the thread to yet another discussion about acceleration numbers, but the EVO + GIAC syndrome of stellar HP has a lot to be debated about.

Sharky, what you posted about ETs. you know does not mean much other than you are a hardcore driver and performance junkie . With a trap speed in the mid 130s, how can you be at 800+ HP? I can do that with 600hp.
The highest I have seen is EVOMS' 140mph for their "1000hp" monster during the shootout. That is what I would expect from a mid 700s hp 996TT with lighter than stock weight, let's face it.

Oh, and there are many many "respectable" European "shops" that claim stupid numbers on the dyno that are not put to the ground as well, the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.

markski

That seems to be the problem- Jean.... I have a evo 8 with 648 rwhp dynoed and I do 10.5 at 137 mph somewhat constantly. I have over 500rwhp in my TT and I cant get below 11.5 sec.
These cars are not meant for it.. no matter how u cut it. Sharky, and addict , is an exception to me... and he gets beta versions of programs for giac/evoms.... so he runs low and high boost- when did anyone get a flashed ecu with high and low boost capability-no one. the ecus go into limp mode after 1.3 bars... not his.
so our times will never be even close to what he gets(not to mention hes a tuner as well). no harm intend Alex- much respect.
and I just have a hard time seeing an tuning package sold by ANY tuner that is off the shelf(bolt on only) that will produce sharkys times... or even high 10s for that matter.
Now take that car on the highway and its a different story.
I launch my evo 8 at 6800rpms.. my TT has to be babied at 2800 rpms. how does one expect to run 10s with 1.6 60ft... no way. and that was evident in the last shootout in Vegas.
just my opinion.. no harm intended towards anyone....
Kudos to Sharky cause hes the only one that will actually show a video and a slip running 10s.

Jean

I expected the US listers to be sleeping

While I agree on the part where the TTs are not drag cars, I disagree with a couple of things. You need to compare a Porsche to another, you cannot really compare Porsche vs. other because of many factors (gearbox, weight bias etc..)..

The other point is that ETs do not tell the story, our cars are lousy off the line, and they spin a lot when they have important torque, trap speed is a much better indication of hp, as it offsets much more the effect of tire spin.

Check the Gemballa EVO GT750 built in 2001-2002, 100-200kph (62-124mph) in 5.3 seconds., check the Manthey 700, check the RS Tuning GT2 with 540+ hp. Now compare to 1000hp EVOM's.
GT700 EVO measured 60-130 in 9s+ is more like 500+ hp.

Jean

markski

I WASNT COMPARING MY TT TO MY EVO 8 .... just used it as an example since I have both...
as far as performance.... evoms..... I think they have a well rounded product- great support- I dont have evoms....
I have been b*tching about 1/4 times when it comes to tuners.... cause IM on my second tuning package and I still have problems getting below 11.5 sec. However, I just might do it this spring cause I got finally hooked up and I can run a litlle bit more boost. 22 psi on 100 octane.
That should get me into very low 11s. I ran 11.5 on 18 psi.
All in all, these cars run 1.3 bars at max.. and I just dont see them getting into the 10s.. unless ur r like sharky( 22 psi is LOW boost for him). but he is an exception in my opinion.
I bet that most of the high HP cars would have a tremendous time getting into the 10s( stock internals). However, lots of guys talk or speculate via mathematical formulas how their TTs will run 10s. To each his own... but I dont see it happening.
just my opinion.