pstoppani

Does anyone have baseline runs for a standard TT and TT with the X50 package?

I searched the forum already and didn't find them. I did find a discussion saying that the X50 TT does about 360HP to the wheels; a 19% loss!

I'd like to see a dyno plot of both.

Yes, I'm trying to figure out if the extra cost is really worth it. Note, I don't want to modify the car.

Also, any evidence that the X50 cars hold value better than non-X50 cars?

Thanks

mitch236

Just a guess, but I would think as a percentage of resale value vs. cost that the X-50 is not a good investment. It's too easy to get better performance from stock TT's with chipping and K-24 turbos.

JP Schnitzer

If you are trying to look at the value of an X-50 strictly in terms of 0-60 or 0-whatever times, then you really don't get it. The x-50 is a finely modified/factory car with upgrades to many parts, turbos, intercoolers, tranny, spring rates etc.....It is a total package, engineered for bullet proof reliability from Porsche.....If you think slapping a few bigger turbos, and a chip gets you the same thing, then go for it. Otherwise, I'll be driving my X-50, and not even thinking about the extra dollars....It's the best 4wheel drive 996 you can buy....And packs a hell of a punch....it also serves as a solid platform if you are inclined to do additional mods....

BTW, if you figure what chipping and K-24 turbos actually cost when you go out and pay for all of it vs. what the differential cost of an x-50 package is on a lightly used car is...I believe that the economics would favor the x-50.

The sticker price of x-50 is $17,700...You would probably be hard pressed to try to recreate an x-50 on a normal 996tt with aftermarket pieces at that price..

Why did Porsche see fit to upgrade the Tranny in the X-50....Gee, could they actually know something that we don't?

My advice....Get x-50, and know that the best tuners in the world, set your car up right from the factory.

pstoppani

I just want the dyno runs. Anyone have them???

BTW - On used 2002 TT's, the X50 adds about $10 to $12K to the price so it does seem to be holding its value as an add-on. Most other addons drop to $0 after it leaves the lot! Still, $10K for 30HP seem like an awful lot of money per HP.

Thanks
99 M3, Imola Red, 360HP, track car, 50+ track day

mitch236

JP, well done. I'm not sure if you meant to insult me but obviously, you didn't read my post too well. The question was resale value and my answer addressed that and only that.

And as many Rennlisters know, you can safely do aftermarket tuning and not run into trouble, so enjoy your X-50 but please move out of my way when I pass you!

Joe Weinstein

Yep. They could have also said "How can we pad the list of improvements
to the X50 package so we can make it sound like a big deal?

The fact is that there are some long-running monster-powered 996tts
out there with the stock tranny. Porsche wouldn't have delivered the
original 996tt with a tranny so on the edge of capability that the minor
power increase that X50 provides would push it over the edge.
Joe

Tim'sNFS

I find this X50 vs TT starting to wear on me. If all you want is higher dyno numbers buy a TT and Mod it. If you want a car that some professionals in the car industry (Numerous magizines confrim this) call the absolute best A to Z sports car in the world. Buy a X50. The no excuse Turbo. When it comes to resale and two equal cars are for sale One an X50 and one not, I'll bet the potential buyer will cough up some extra cash for the X50 every time. When it comes to selling your modded car I'll bet most people take it back to stock and try to minize the fact it was modded and try recap some $ at a garge sale.

But I'm biased I have an X50, the best A to Z sports car in the world. Look out for those 1000HP modded Vipers. You too might have to get out of the way.

ebaker

Factory graph

pstoppani

That is exactly what I wanted. I wanted to see if the torque curve was simply raised, or offset. This shows there is a slight offset between 1500 and 2500. You trade off a bit of max torque in that range in exchange for more torque after 2500 RPM. Very interesting.

Thanks!

Joe Weinstein

Also, it doesn't show if there's any more lag with the X50's larger
turbos. I don't know because I haven't driven one, but from the
basic engineering principals, there should be some more lag.
Joe

rbcsaver

Also, it doesn't show if there's any more lag with the X50's larger
turbos. I don't know because I haven't driven one, but from the
basic engineering principals, there should be some more lag.
Joe



I have a 2002 996 TT X50. The car is absolutely phenomenal. Not
perfect though for the price tag. I cannot ascertain any turbo lag in my X50.
From what I do "know" the X50 has larger turbos, intercooler, an "upgraded
tranny" and a different ECU mapping. Does $17,500 seem like an appropriate charge for "add-on parts" (except for the tranny)? It seems like a lot of money (almost the cost of a Mini C) " Does anyone have Porsche documentation that they did anything else? I have heard people mention cranks, etc, but not from Porsche. Would they even say what the difference is? I remember the Colman story in Excellence that on his factory tour that the were NOT allowed to see the engine assembly of the X50. Though reverse engineering would shead light on componets.

Also, it is my understanding that each and every P engine is dynoed at the factory and they allow 10% + or -. So at PAG "standards" of 450 HP in an X50, one could be between 405 and 495. Anyone have info to substantiate or
defame this?

Dock

Forget the K-24's, all it takes is a chip that costs either $500 (Upsolute) or $3900 (EVOMS) and a stock non-X50 Turbo has much more power than the X50. The EVOMS Stage 1 chip bumps the horsepower to around 480 versus the X50's 444 hp. Upsolute provides even more power.

The cost of chipping vs. X50 is no contest.

ebaker

There's probably less difference between the X50 and stock in first and second gear than the graph indicates. The $4000 upsolute + exhaust upgrade will probably outperform the stock X50. However just add a chip + exhaust to an X50 and you basically have a stage 4 car.

noony

rbcsaver I think its +5% and -1%

Sloth

I asked about that while on a factory tour. German law stipulates that the engines have to dyno within x% of the factory published number. Every Porsche engine is dynoed at the factory. I was told that PAG allows a +5% over the factory rate, but anything under the factory published number and the engine gets rejected. Many talk about PAG being conservative in their HP ratings, probably by about 5%. One could speculate that PAG does this to ensure they have to rebuild fewer engines.

For example, there have been two GT3's that have gone to the dyno. Both of them had converted FW numbers in the 400hp range... or ~5% higher than the factory rating of 380.