Best turbo; 996tt vs 993tt?
12-18-2003, 11:44 PM
#17
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I have a very strange preference on this one. I like the 993 NA better then the 996 NA. However, I think the 996 TT is MUCH more sexy then the 993 TT. I don't know why, but if they were both parked next to each other my eyes would always fall upon the 996 TT. Best wishes - Jay Gratton
12-18-2003, 11:53 PM
#18
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Hmmm.... Seeing how this thread is posted on the 996 Turbo forum, I'd think the response would be overwhelmingly pro-996TT. Quite a surprise.
I think the answer may lie somewhat in what other cars you own as well. If the 911 TT is the only car, I can see why the more civilized 996TT would/could be a better car, as it pampers you more, yet comes with blistering performance. However, if you already have a very competent long-distanace road car, then you would/could prefer the 993tt just to be at the sport's car extreme. That is my case as my daily driver is an M5, and I don't need a soft sports car.
I have driven 996tt quite extensively and settled for the 993, mainly for these reasons:
(1) Last of the traditional air-cooled engine.
(2) Better looking in my eyes. The Boxster really cheapens the 996 IMHO.
(3) Better hand-built quality.
(4) More raw sports car feel.
I eventually landed a 993 RUF BTR-2 which is the ultimate 993 in my book.
LOOOOOVE that car.
CP
I think the answer may lie somewhat in what other cars you own as well. If the 911 TT is the only car, I can see why the more civilized 996TT would/could be a better car, as it pampers you more, yet comes with blistering performance. However, if you already have a very competent long-distanace road car, then you would/could prefer the 993tt just to be at the sport's car extreme. That is my case as my daily driver is an M5, and I don't need a soft sports car.
I have driven 996tt quite extensively and settled for the 993, mainly for these reasons:
(1) Last of the traditional air-cooled engine.
(2) Better looking in my eyes. The Boxster really cheapens the 996 IMHO.
(3) Better hand-built quality.
(4) More raw sports car feel.
I eventually landed a 993 RUF BTR-2 which is the ultimate 993 in my book.
LOOOOOVE that car.
CP
Last edited by CP; 12-19-2003 at 12:18 PM.
12-19-2003, 02:19 AM
#20
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CP,
Point well taken. Alot of the 996TT "converts" have had the 993 and having a car that is a bit more comfortable yet stilll provides outright performance might just be the next step. As for me, when I step in the 993TT I want that bit of raw viscerality...damn I can't get enough. Time to go for a drive....
Mike
97 993TT blk/blk
Point well taken. Alot of the 996TT "converts" have had the 993 and having a car that is a bit more comfortable yet stilll provides outright performance might just be the next step. As for me, when I step in the 993TT I want that bit of raw viscerality...damn I can't get enough. Time to go for a drive....
Mike
97 993TT blk/blk
12-19-2003, 09:58 AM
#21
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From the world of Corvettes...
I've been reading this thread for the last day or two and it's rather interesting. It's also rather familiar to me: I'm a Corvette guy currently, with a '99 (C5) which is quite a different car from the one before it. It sounds like the differences between the 993 and the 996 are almost exactly like the differences between the previous generation Vette (C4 .. NOT refering to a Porsche C4) and the current one.
I had a last-of-breed C4 that I tracked quite frequently. I thoroughly enjoyed the raw, brutish power of the car, the "cozy(?)" but cramped, almost jet-fighter like cockpit, and the looks of the car. And though people were questioning the handling characteristics of the car at the time, I was one of the fastest things with fenders at the track. Great car!
One, then another of my friends got new C5s. At first, I sneered. My car's engine had far more low-end torque than theirs did. I could rev my engine to higher RPMs than they could theirs. And when we tracked our cars together, they couldn't catch me.
Then I made the mistake of driving their cars. At first, my butt couldn't tell what the car was doing because GM had done such a good job of isolating the driver. I wasn't used to a car that was built so well. I certainly wasn't used to a car that was so damned comfortable. The raw, brute of an engine was tamed but still as powerful as ever. The more I drove their cars, the more accustomed I became to its at-the-limits handling behaviours, how it accelerated, how it braked, etc.
I was ready to put one of these things on the track. So I sold my trusty '96 and purchased a '99. I haven't regretted it since. From the factory, its suspension and chassis setup was far superb to my previous one. With a quick trip to a Corvette tuner, it was easily pushing 470HP at the crank. A not-so-quick brake overhaul, combined with some harnesses to hold me in place, and I'm once again one of the fastest things on the track (during open track days / classes.)
What's this long, useless post trying to say? Basically: don't look past the newer model of a hot sports/GT car. If GM could keep the best parts of the Corvette in the next model while improving all of the previous car's weaknesses, surely Porsche would do the same. In fact, there's only been 2 cars that've shown me their tail lights at the track: one '96 Viper GTS driven by a professional, and one modified 996 Turbo.
jas
I had a last-of-breed C4 that I tracked quite frequently. I thoroughly enjoyed the raw, brutish power of the car, the "cozy(?)" but cramped, almost jet-fighter like cockpit, and the looks of the car. And though people were questioning the handling characteristics of the car at the time, I was one of the fastest things with fenders at the track. Great car!
One, then another of my friends got new C5s. At first, I sneered. My car's engine had far more low-end torque than theirs did. I could rev my engine to higher RPMs than they could theirs. And when we tracked our cars together, they couldn't catch me.
Then I made the mistake of driving their cars. At first, my butt couldn't tell what the car was doing because GM had done such a good job of isolating the driver. I wasn't used to a car that was built so well. I certainly wasn't used to a car that was so damned comfortable. The raw, brute of an engine was tamed but still as powerful as ever. The more I drove their cars, the more accustomed I became to its at-the-limits handling behaviours, how it accelerated, how it braked, etc.
I was ready to put one of these things on the track. So I sold my trusty '96 and purchased a '99. I haven't regretted it since. From the factory, its suspension and chassis setup was far superb to my previous one. With a quick trip to a Corvette tuner, it was easily pushing 470HP at the crank. A not-so-quick brake overhaul, combined with some harnesses to hold me in place, and I'm once again one of the fastest things on the track (during open track days / classes.)
What's this long, useless post trying to say? Basically: don't look past the newer model of a hot sports/GT car. If GM could keep the best parts of the Corvette in the next model while improving all of the previous car's weaknesses, surely Porsche would do the same. In fact, there's only been 2 cars that've shown me their tail lights at the track: one '96 Viper GTS driven by a professional, and one modified 996 Turbo.
jas
12-19-2003, 12:15 PM
#23
Race Director
Originally posted by PorschePhD
"993 RUF BTR-2"
Now that is a car!!!
"993 RUF BTR-2"
Now that is a car!!!
Thanks. In case you don't frequent the 993 forum much, here are a few threads on the saga of my RUF.
Enjoy.
CP
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=102539
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=91273
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=103983
12-19-2003, 12:16 PM
#24
In my opinion, the 993 is closer to an airplane than a car. Great road view, great gauges, compact design (i.e., short overhangs, small nose), unusual design (i.e., tall cockpit, round headlights, "melted" tail, fat rear), great road feel and fun to drive. It's unusual engine (air cooled) and sound add to the excitement of owning something very "different".
The new 996 is more like a car. Bigger, heavier, comfortable and more ordinary (i.e., the "melted soap-bar" look, unless you go for the outrageous GT2 tail). It's close to what's being offered by Mercedes and BMW. That's why I wouldn't buy a 996. I prefer the "airplane" over the "car". Look at the Ferrari Enzo or McLaren. That's far from a car (even without a giant GT2 tail!). I would have preferred Porsche to go in that direction. If they maintain their current direction, BMW and/or Mercedes will offer a better product (if they don't already).
I suspect some of your neighbors may be more impressed by a 996 since it's a new car ("oh, they must have money to buy a 2004 car"). For me, I get enjoyment out of scaring the neighbors. The 993, especially with 500 HP or more, will definitely do that!
Here's a test. Take one of your AMG Mercedes friends for a ride in a 500 HP 993TT or a 500 HP 996TT. I'll bet they grab the door handle first in the 993. That's my test for a fun sports car! My neighbors only ask for a ride in my Ruf 993 Turbo R once!
The new 996 is more like a car. Bigger, heavier, comfortable and more ordinary (i.e., the "melted soap-bar" look, unless you go for the outrageous GT2 tail). It's close to what's being offered by Mercedes and BMW. That's why I wouldn't buy a 996. I prefer the "airplane" over the "car". Look at the Ferrari Enzo or McLaren. That's far from a car (even without a giant GT2 tail!). I would have preferred Porsche to go in that direction. If they maintain their current direction, BMW and/or Mercedes will offer a better product (if they don't already).
I suspect some of your neighbors may be more impressed by a 996 since it's a new car ("oh, they must have money to buy a 2004 car"). For me, I get enjoyment out of scaring the neighbors. The 993, especially with 500 HP or more, will definitely do that!
Here's a test. Take one of your AMG Mercedes friends for a ride in a 500 HP 993TT or a 500 HP 996TT. I'll bet they grab the door handle first in the 993. That's my test for a fun sports car! My neighbors only ask for a ride in my Ruf 993 Turbo R once!
12-19-2003, 04:31 PM
#25
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I own an 02X50, and only drove a 993tt once, but am I the only one who feels the 993 has noticably more resistance to turn-in and more sense of power-on understeer? I haven't had the opportunity to try a modded 993tt, but the strong understeer on the 993 led me to the 996tt, which I subjectively feel is better in this regard. This comes from the perspective of 1991 964C4 owner which also had very pronounced understeer characteristics. AS
12-19-2003, 05:51 PM
#26
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Originally posted by mkhn
CP,
Point well taken. Alot of the 996TT "converts" have had the 993 and having a car that is a bit more comfortable yet stilll provides outright performance might just be the next step. As for me, when I step in the 993TT I want that bit of raw viscerality...damn I can't get enough. Time to go for a drive....
Mike
97 993TT blk/blk
CP,
Point well taken. Alot of the 996TT "converts" have had the 993 and having a car that is a bit more comfortable yet stilll provides outright performance might just be the next step. As for me, when I step in the 993TT I want that bit of raw viscerality...damn I can't get enough. Time to go for a drive....
Mike
97 993TT blk/blk
Where are you in Mountain View? I'm at Magdelena & 280 in Los Altos. Almost neighbors.
CP
12-19-2003, 06:16 PM
#27
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Originally posted by Alexander Stemer
I own an 02X50, and only drove a 993tt once, but am I the only one who feels the 993 has noticably more resistance to turn-in and more sense of power-on understeer?
I own an 02X50, and only drove a 993tt once, but am I the only one who feels the 993 has noticably more resistance to turn-in and more sense of power-on understeer?
12-19-2003, 07:12 PM
#28
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As an outright performer, I wouldn't bet against the 996TT over the 993TT. On avg, Porsche has traditionally improved over each generation, but you can't have everything. So as some things are improved or refined, some things are lossed. Those things lossed on the 996TT are too important to me in a 911. Perhaps after owning the 993 for awhile, I will then look to the 997 or 998(?) models which will presumably be improvements to the 996 in areas of balance, stability, reliability, acceleration, braking, steering etc...still that x factor in a car is what makes me go WOW, which is ultimately different for everyone.
12-19-2003, 07:14 PM
#29
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As an outright performer, I wouldn't bet against the 996TT over the 993TT. On avg, Porsche has traditionally improved over each generation, but you can't have everything. So as some things are improved or refined, some things are lossed. Those things lossed on the 996TT are too important to me in a 911. Perhaps after owning the 993 for awhile, I will then look to the 997 or 998(?) models which will presumably be improvements to the 996 in areas of balance, stability, reliability, acceleration, braking, steering etc...still that x factor in a car is what makes me go WOW, which is ultimately different for everyone.
CP, I grew up on Hillview and Magdalena. You live darn close to Viperbob. I'm near the Springer Rd and El Monte intersection. PM me and we can meet up at Viperbob's some time. My car should arrive tomorrow(keeping fingers crossed)
Mike
CP, I grew up on Hillview and Magdalena. You live darn close to Viperbob. I'm near the Springer Rd and El Monte intersection. PM me and we can meet up at Viperbob's some time. My car should arrive tomorrow(keeping fingers crossed)
Mike
12-19-2003, 07:32 PM
#30
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Mike,
I do live real close to Viperbob, on Fairway Drive off Hillview. I'll be at Bob's place on saturday 12-27-03 from 9 am on. I'll be there for 4-5 hours. Drop by if you are in the neighborhood.
Where's your TT coming from?
CP
I do live real close to Viperbob, on Fairway Drive off Hillview. I'll be at Bob's place on saturday 12-27-03 from 9 am on. I'll be there for 4-5 hours. Drop by if you are in the neighborhood.
Where's your TT coming from?
CP