from fun cars:

"My GT3 has the steel rotors, which my dealer checked upon my return home yesterday. "They're toast" was their assessment. There were two drivers for the GT3 at the event, myself (Red-Instructor) and a driver in the Black run group. We logged over 800 track miles or nearly 250 laps in three days. Corner one was the damaging one as I slowed from the top of 5th gear (148-150 mph) to 2nd in typically less than 200 feet.
The street GT3 begins to overtake Cup cars in the second half of staightaways due to different gearing and rear axle ratios. The street GT3 can also outbrake them ( due to the bigger, six piston front calipers) if we so choose. I really did enjoy that but the rotors paid the price, which acording to my dealer are $1250 CDN. each (about $940 US). Does anybody know where I can buy the same or better rotors for less? "

http://www.funcarsonline.com/ubbthre...c=1&PHPSESSID=

so Martin got 250 track miles from his steel rotors for $1880, that's 40 sets of rotors to equal bob rouleau's 10,000 miles and still going pccb. so martin will spend $75,200 on front rotors and bob has spent $0. say bob replaces his front rotors at 15,000 miles at $10,000 [a full pccb kit for $12,000].

bob's pccb cost per track mile for 15,000 track miles is $1,50 for front rotors

vs martin's steel cost of 60 sets X 1880=112,800/15,000 miles of $7.52 per track mile

if martin has to buy rears 1/2 as frequently, his cost per mile is worse.

 

Watt,

There is a lot of room for interpretation in the words "they are toast".
I wouldn't give a lot of credence based on most of this guys posts, does anyone really think a Cup car is slower than a GT3?

Unless the guy was dragging his foot on the brake I can't imagine he really needs replacement rotors after one weekend. He may have some small cracks in the rotors but that is normal and not a big deal.

 

agreed greg,
but the point still obtains arithmetically, to break even steel/pccb, you can only use roughly 12 sets of steel per set of pccb, which is 1235 track miles per set, assuming bob has to buy rotors at 15K mi.

 

Also - Making comparisons to BMW motor problems vs. Porsche brake problems is unfair. The motor is under warranty and is built to last, the brakes are a wearable item and NO manufacturer will warranty them.

So they dont work any better than steel, do not last as long as they said they will (Still not proven as fact), but they are lighter and reduce the unsprung weight by 40lbs. There would be no way to reduce that weight with steel rotors and the process of making the PCCB is much more expensive than steel - Speed costs money remember people?

You know why I didnt order PCCB?? The same reason I am careful about anything new and untested in the real world - Let someone else be the guinnea pig. I hope in the case of Twisted where he has only one rotor showing abnormal wear they would look at it as a possible defect - that appears to be different than those of you who track the car and are hard on the brakes. I wish you all the best, but just because the brakes dont last as long as expected or work as well either, they do still work and you cannot expect Porsche to just change them out. If they do it for one, they must do it for all. Maybe the technology will get better in time - until then buyer beware!

Adam

 

Watt, aren't you comparing the worst case with the GT3 steel rotors to the best case with the GT2 ceramics? Wouldn't a better comparison be to Mark's experiences in his GT2? That would be worst case to worst case.

Why don't you do the math again for us and see how that works out?

Stephen

 

from the porsche website about the PCCB brakes on the GT3:
Another key benefit of the PCCB system is the remarkable durability of both pads and discs. While the actual rate of wear on all brake components – particularly pads and discs – is entirely dependent on individual driving style and, of course, vehicle usage, like-for-like testing reveals a much longer lifespan compared with conventional systems.

With its major weight savings and exceptional fade resistance, even at very high temperatures, PCCB is the ideal option for genuine competition use. It is important to note, however, that circuit racing or similar extreme driving conditions can significantly reduce the overall life expectancy of even the most durable pads and discs. It is therefore important – as with conventional steel high-performance brakes – to have all PCCB components properly checked and replaced, if necessary, after every track event.

 

Thats the new words, the old ones were very different...............

Guy

 

For those of you that think that ceramic rotors can only be destroyed on the track, I was driving on the crowded highways of northern Italy yesterday. Constantly going up to about 230/240 km/h indicated and then back down to 120 as I hit traffic. I checked my ceramic brakes a half hour after doing this. Still too hot to touch.

These sorts of conditions -- constantly accelerating up to high speeds and then having to slow quickly for traffic -- must be the absolute worse conditions you can find. The speeds are higher than on a track and the amount of energy being dissipated is greater.

Stephen

 

great fixed wing conspiracy,

shall we continue our tennis match?

the US equivalent, running empty desert 2 lane at 150, one must frequently brake down to identify oncoming traffic, or pass traffic with respect. I can do it all day and my pccb work fine, and since i know to cool them my last few miles before home, i let them cool.

no problem

 

After reading this thread with great interest (and disenchantment), it seems as though some sort of very unfortunate "catstrophic failure" or fatality will be the only way (through the courts) that this whole PCCB will be fairly and objectively evaluated and that some change might result. If such an unfortunate event were to occur, it is hard to imagine that the condition of the brakes wouldn't be a contributing factor to the unfortunate event if it were to indeed happen (among driver's error, road conditions, rate of speed, vehcile condition before, etc.). Seems as though I recall an unfortunate incident in San Diego years ago about a fatality of a person driving an oversteering turbo that was extensively investigated by Porsche (and later recreated).

Seems as if PCNA is playing the odds that there won't be some sort of massive failure/fatality. Remind you of the movie "Class Action"?

 

As much as I would like Porsche to improve its system or provide us with a steel alternative at no charge, I really hope no severe incident will occur.

When my pads started to break appart at laguna, the brake pedal wasn't feeling normal. Also, a weird noise started to develop under braking. Hopefully, this will hint a driver to stop.

Watt, I'm glad you don't have any issue (yet), but I don't think a cool down lap helps since I'm doing them religiously except during the first sessions in order to check tire pressure.

AW

 

Oh Watt, you are becoming so tiresome...

Here is what's going on in Italy. I'm at 230 km/h in heavy traffic with three lanes of cars. I come upon other traffic doing maybe 140. I brake hard (usually just off the ABS) in behind them. If they clear to the right in time I'm down into 4th or 5th and power back up to 230 (as much as anything to get out of their way so that they can pull back to the left -- polite people deserve to be treated politely). If not, I slot in behind them and wait for them to finish passing the traffic ahead and move right. As they move over I'm spooling up the turbo again and already along side them as they move over.

This is happening mile after mile maybe once a minute. Sometimes more frequently. If I'm lucky, then maybe I can stay at speed for a couple minutes. If the traffic in the middle lane is also clear then I'll let the speed go up to 250 or 260 (not yesterday because of the roads but often).

Now Watt, is that what you're doing in the desert? If you think so, then why don't you take your right thumb and stick it on the rotor 30 minutes after you park the car. Let us know the results.

Stephen

 

your vendetta is tiresome as well as prolix!

tell everyone here how Porsche had the Swiss freeway shut down to capture you!!! "what we have here is a vast fixed wing consipracy" Hillary Clinton

stephen fixes his car after another outing

 

Watt,

Let's be a little more objective here. The way I understand it, some of us
have issues / concerns that are not being 'addressed' approprately by
PCNA / Porsche AG.

If we don't express our concerns here, where should we express them?

 

and if we express them here does PCNA / Porsche AG even care to read or listen in to our concerns on this or any other forum?!?