PCCB Arbitration Results
01-21-2004, 06:48 PM
#136
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Have recently heard unconfirmed reports in the UK that Porsche will slash the price of replacement PCCB discs later this year to a level that would qualify them as consumables.
Robin C
GT3RS
Robin C
GT3RS
01-21-2004, 07:10 PM
#137
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Mark & Bill, reason and reasonable as your thoughts are, I still find myself very worried that I must hope to squeeze under some invisible net if my GT3 drops a valve, or some other unlikely mechanincal disaster strikes.
I can see Goliath pionting at me, booming "We're you driving the car when this happened, lad?"
"Er, yes, that's why I bought it, Sir!"
Goliath, "Well driving your car is clearly beyond the control of PNA, now get lost, or else!"
What then, how do I fight Goliath, cut up the remains of my motor in hope that with little aluminum marbles I will somehow magically fell the beast?
Not only was I dumb enough to buy a sports car with a warranty forbidding sports, I actually paid extra money for a 6 year extension to it! After all these years of buying every product in my life after weeks of research, and being certain that it was the best possible thing I could get for my needs, I never would have guessed it would be Porsche NA who would make a fool out me!
At least I'm loving my Porsche AG car, every time I get in it I forget these dilemas, and just melt into the machine. It is the best car I have owned or driven, and I know I will remain thrilled with it, until I need to get something fixed that is!
I can see Goliath pionting at me, booming "We're you driving the car when this happened, lad?"
"Er, yes, that's why I bought it, Sir!"
Goliath, "Well driving your car is clearly beyond the control of PNA, now get lost, or else!"
What then, how do I fight Goliath, cut up the remains of my motor in hope that with little aluminum marbles I will somehow magically fell the beast?
Not only was I dumb enough to buy a sports car with a warranty forbidding sports, I actually paid extra money for a 6 year extension to it! After all these years of buying every product in my life after weeks of research, and being certain that it was the best possible thing I could get for my needs, I never would have guessed it would be Porsche NA who would make a fool out me!
At least I'm loving my Porsche AG car, every time I get in it I forget these dilemas, and just melt into the machine. It is the best car I have owned or driven, and I know I will remain thrilled with it, until I need to get something fixed that is!
01-21-2004, 07:25 PM
#138
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FYI,
When placing my order for my GT3 in December (car arrives in April 04) the dealer was very keen to sell me PCCB. Now I've read a lot about PCCB and their widespread failures so I politely declined. The dealer was quite suprised by this and this conversation followed:
Dealer
These are far superior to standard steel brakes and will outlast them for over 100k miles.
Me
I've heard that there are a lot of failures on them and I don't cherish the thought of £5000 per corner. I intend to take the car on track every so often too.
Dealer
They are fully warranted against failures.
Me
What, on track aswel?
Dealer
Yes they're fully covered.
Me
So I can take the car on track and if the PCCB discs need replacing, you'll change it under warranty?
Dealer
Indeed.
Me
That's amazing, so Porsche are actively encouraging you to take your car on track and are promising to repair it if it goes wrong?
Dealer
Pretty much - don't forget though, that even Porsches break down, Nothing in this world is indestructable so as long as the big wigs don't see signs of serious abuse then you're free to do what you want.
This is a London dealer so your arguments may well be against the US distributers and not PAG.
Hope this helps.
Cem
When placing my order for my GT3 in December (car arrives in April 04) the dealer was very keen to sell me PCCB. Now I've read a lot about PCCB and their widespread failures so I politely declined. The dealer was quite suprised by this and this conversation followed:
Dealer
These are far superior to standard steel brakes and will outlast them for over 100k miles.
Me
I've heard that there are a lot of failures on them and I don't cherish the thought of £5000 per corner. I intend to take the car on track every so often too.
Dealer
They are fully warranted against failures.
Me
What, on track aswel?
Dealer
Yes they're fully covered.
Me
So I can take the car on track and if the PCCB discs need replacing, you'll change it under warranty?
Dealer
Indeed.
Me
That's amazing, so Porsche are actively encouraging you to take your car on track and are promising to repair it if it goes wrong?
Dealer
Pretty much - don't forget though, that even Porsches break down, Nothing in this world is indestructable so as long as the big wigs don't see signs of serious abuse then you're free to do what you want.
This is a London dealer so your arguments may well be against the US distributers and not PAG.
Hope this helps.
Cem
01-22-2004, 05:15 AM
#139
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Cem,
Words from the salesman trying to sell a car mean nothing, unless the dealership put it in writing.
My local Porsche dealer, in the UK, had the salesman tell me that a GT2 was 'made for the track' and later on at the same dealer the Service Manager told me that certain parts on my car were not warrantied when they needed replacing because the car had been 'used on track'.
Guy
Words from the salesman trying to sell a car mean nothing, unless the dealership put it in writing.
My local Porsche dealer, in the UK, had the salesman tell me that a GT2 was 'made for the track' and later on at the same dealer the Service Manager told me that certain parts on my car were not warrantied when they needed replacing because the car had been 'used on track'.
Guy
01-22-2004, 07:53 AM
#140
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Doesn't matter Guy.
If a purchase of a car was subject to the verbal promises of the representative of that company, i.e. Porsche, then they're obliged to warrant any of my post sale issues that relate to those promises.
Cem
If a purchase of a car was subject to the verbal promises of the representative of that company, i.e. Porsche, then they're obliged to warrant any of my post sale issues that relate to those promises.
Cem
01-22-2004, 08:30 AM
#141
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Sorry but thats incredibly naive - you try and prove that was said when it comes time to claim and the dealer has been told by the warranty company that it won't pay the bill...............
01-22-2004, 01:32 PM
#146
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Goliath strikes back!
I see that my signature has been magically altered to remove PNA's warranty statement "Abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use or other events beyond the control of Porsche Cars NA."
Does this mean our protests about PNA selling a sports car, and forbidding us to use it for sports, have been heard and noted to our benefit, or is the result of this censorship just a 'no change' victory to Goliath?
I see that my signature has been magically altered to remove PNA's warranty statement "Abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use or other events beyond the control of Porsche Cars NA."
Does this mean our protests about PNA selling a sports car, and forbidding us to use it for sports, have been heard and noted to our benefit, or is the result of this censorship just a 'no change' victory to Goliath?
Last edited by macfly; 01-22-2004 at 02:35 PM.
01-27-2004, 06:29 PM
#148
Still plays with cars.
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Guys,
I am very curious. Has anyone else had a failure and a warranty claim denied besides Mark GT2? How many have not had a denied claim? My rotors may need replacing and I am wondering if Mark's experience was an isolated one. I am pretty sure that Porsche will take care of me as they have on past cars which had problems. My 964 had the head leak and the repair was very expensive. Porsche had no qualms standing behind their product even at a time when the company was not in the best shape financially. Since the problem affected about ten percent of the 1989 964's their exposure was a lot greater than the PCCB thing. How many GT2's and or PCCB 3's are there in NA? A few hundred? How many are tracked - I can't see Porsche losing loyal customers over what is a very small, percentage of cars with problems.
Best,
I am very curious. Has anyone else had a failure and a warranty claim denied besides Mark GT2? How many have not had a denied claim? My rotors may need replacing and I am wondering if Mark's experience was an isolated one. I am pretty sure that Porsche will take care of me as they have on past cars which had problems. My 964 had the head leak and the repair was very expensive. Porsche had no qualms standing behind their product even at a time when the company was not in the best shape financially. Since the problem affected about ten percent of the 1989 964's their exposure was a lot greater than the PCCB thing. How many GT2's and or PCCB 3's are there in NA? A few hundred? How many are tracked - I can't see Porsche losing loyal customers over what is a very small, percentage of cars with problems.
Best,
01-27-2004, 07:48 PM
#149
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It's time to get practical and away from the ridiculous. Some of the fears are really overblown, and based upon rumor and misinformation.
Figure it this way, if you don't abuse your car Porsche will take care of the warranty items. DE and autocross don't count as racing or track events and any problems will be covered, Dealers even sponsor these events!
If you expect Porsche to stand behind you with a blank cheque while you tear up the track and the car well..that's stupidity!
I talked to a number of dealers on this issue.. bottom line is "no abuse, no problem". You may even get the benefit of the doubt on the first go around.
And if we are all honest, we know what abuse is, right?
Figure it this way, if you don't abuse your car Porsche will take care of the warranty items. DE and autocross don't count as racing or track events and any problems will be covered, Dealers even sponsor these events!
If you expect Porsche to stand behind you with a blank cheque while you tear up the track and the car well..that's stupidity!
I talked to a number of dealers on this issue.. bottom line is "no abuse, no problem". You may even get the benefit of the doubt on the first go around.
And if we are all honest, we know what abuse is, right?
01-27-2004, 09:31 PM
#150
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Bob, they covered my pads and rotors under warranty, they gave me benefit of doubt, even knowing I had abused them. My dealers position is same as Colms no abuse no problem, They gave me free pass first time and gave me strict break in and maintence procedures exactly like the one's you discussed some time ago. They maintain as long as i'm reasonable they will be fair with me. I would be shocked based on your meticulous break in and care of your ceramics if they did not cover them under warranty. Good luck!