GuyR

Fact 1. The Porsche website used to say PCCB was "a powerful new technology designed to cope with even the most extreme
conditions on racetrack and road." Not anymore......

Fact 2. My PCCB rotors were (kindly) replaced by Porsche at 9,000 miles.......

Fact 3. This would not be an issue for any of us if the PCCB rotors were $1,000 per pair, but at a $15,000 liability per pair it is........

Fact 4. Tests have proven that the PCCB does not reduce stopping distance (source: Sport-Auto in Germany, although I have not seen it myself)

Guy

Viken

Finally, someone agrees with me.

Bill_C4S

Taking a non-US perspective, am endeavouring to understand how on earth PAG could argue that the GT3 CS or GT3 RS (road Car) were never meant to be tracked....given their respective internal fitment...and optional PCCB.

Appreciate this does not alter the PCNA warranty issue....but borders on the absurd to support activity in one country and deny it in another.

(And yes I fully appreciate the Athenian dimension...i.e: the US being litigious...but at the reality is :Physics..is Physics)

0396

Originally posted by Eric - Plug Guy

This is not a surprise at all.

I contacted the head of PCNA Customer Commitment recently about a few things on my 996. This was after a lengthy back-and-forth with my DSM, who is a great guy, but who toed the company line.

My expectation was at least a direct response from the Customer Commitment head.

Nope. He passed it right back to the DSM, who then called me simply to restate the company position.

What a bunch of hokey.

Chrysler does it this way too, and has for years. The TOP DOGS in Customer Service DO NOT talk with customers.


Eric,

I thought I was the only one getting the 'run' around.
I too have a concern with my GT2 and since I have not received any
satisfaction from my local DSM. I went as far as to write a letter to
Peter Scha... the President of PCNA regarding my concerns. During the same
week, I ended up receiving a CSI survey regarding my GT2 from Richard Ford.
Who is the COO requesting my INPUT to the car. Well, I thought what an opportune time to fyi Mr Ford on my concerns.

Guess what, the local DSM calls me regarding my letters... So now I wonder does PCNA really care ? Don't think so... sad thing is they didn't have any problems cashing my check for the GT2 - but when it comes to backing up their product..

So who's lining up for some 'loyal customer' incentives for their Cayenne?

Les Quam

Fixed wing, a few months ago our local master tech and a few others from my local dealership were flown at Porsche expense to Atlanta for tech and driving ed on the Gt 3 and Cayanne turbo. While present in Atlanta the tech observed a GT3 being taken off line to the paddock he followed and observed the pads had cracked and damage to the rotor was visible one of the Porsche guys told him this was happening to some PCCb brake systems but not others. The outcome is that my local dealership will no longer order PCCb for anyone on their GT3s. Also about one year ago Porsche brought in a press car that had recently been used by a celebrity for a complete replacement of PCCb brakes and rotors on a GT 2 I was able to see the damage for myself. Porshe attributed it to abuse by the press and the well known car guy talk show host. However none of the three Carrera GTs that were here in the summer for torture testing had any brake problems for what thats worth. My master tech has made recent inquries to Porsche regarding this issue , he tells me Porsche believes only significant neglect and abuse by a few owners is causing all the problems. Which neither I nor the master tech believes is true.

Mr. RS

Bill,

Buy your car and enjoy it, you will not regret your purchase.

I have read with interest the ongoing PCCB saga, from reading I see that the majority, although not all, are for GT2.

I will just go and get my tin hat before I commit the following to print...

Ok, could the problems due due to driving style and lack of warm up and cool down time on the track?

The GT2 is a VERY fast car, it is also quite heavy.

Some of the owners, not all Stephen, have a tendency at track days to use all of the performance in a straight line,, brake VERY heavily for the corners coast round and then give it maximum attack on the next straight only to repeat the procedure.

They then will continue to do this even on the cool down lap.

The problem with PCCB and in fact Steel disks is caused by over heating, the above procedure being a major contribution to over heating.

I make this comment after having attended a track day earlier this year in my GT3 and nearly running into the back of a GT2 as the guy stood on the brakes and proceeded to go around the corner at a speed that would be more relevant on the London to Brighton run!

As previously mentioned, a very good friend of mine has an 01 GT2 CS which is used as a demo vehicle for customers and the like at various track events. In the 2 years and 5000 HARD miles the vehicle has covered he has had no problem with the PCCB and it shows no real signs of wear.

Why? after every session the car is allowed to cool down on the in lap.

Whilst I am concerned that there are people out there having problems and that Porsche have changed the way they represent the system, I have still elected to go with the PCCB on my RS.

The car will be tracked and as I am a "spirited" driver, if anyone is going to get problems it will be me.

Maybe in the lighter car I will not get problems, maybe I will, but rest assured I will report my findings.

I will now put my head above the parapet and welcome the anticipated barrage...

Hold on, I will get my coat.....

P.

GTGTGT

I have a GT3 ordered to be delivered in January. I have ordered with PCCB option. Although these posts cause me concern about safety, I am going to go for a newer, and proposed and marketed, better technology. If they fail, and I live, then I will probably take a different approach.

First, I will be nice and ask the dealer to assist with making things right. Conisdering the CGT has these brakes and can't believe that Porsche is not going to fix an issue with these brakes. If not, Porsche should not be allowed to sell high performance automobiles.

If that does not work, I will write every auto publication, including GT Purely Porsche, 911 World, Excelance (already an article), etc., local Chamber of Commerce, ect.. I will cause them pain through an avenue that they do not have control over : not the lawyer route.

Greg Fishman

Has anyone bothered to run some cooling ducts to the brakes? Just thinking that the problem may be solved by less than $50 in material...

twisted

Gee, I followed the brake-in procedure for my car and during this time at 400 miles my left front rotor shows surface cracks from hole to hole. So Porsche explain to us how this is neglect or abuse?!?

This almost reminds me of BMW and the problems owners were having with the E46 M3 motors blowing up, BMW said it was from not following the break-in procedure, turned out to be a bearing clearance spec that was a bit tight if one did not follow the procedure. BMW recalled and fixed the problem and extended the warranty on the motors. Maybe Porsche can learn from this, but it sounds to me like Porsche is in the phase of pointing the finger.

AW

Mr RS. I'm sure that over braking, in many cases, contributes to PCCB issues. But I don't think this is the only factor. The length of the session is a large factor, and so is the track layout.

As I have said before, my green pads failed after driving two run groups in a row (50 minutes of track time) at a track which granted, is hard on brakes (Laguna Seca).

Still, my previous street car (996 TT with steel rotors) went through many days at Laguna, with similar usage and no issues.

AW

FixedWing

Funny you should ask ...

After the initial problems my dealer generously swapped the Turbo brake ducts for GT2 ducts front and back.

When the car returned from Stuttgart after being worked on by them (including replacing the front rotors) I later heard that one of the things that they complained about was the non-standard GT2 brake scoups that had been installed on my car by the dealer.

Modify your car at your own peril.

Stephen

twisted

Ducts will not help. My left front rotor has surface cracks at 400 miles of street driving.

BMW Randy

I heard about this issue through a BMW forum and I happen to live in Birmingham, AL where Porsche has it's Driving Experience School at Barber's Motorsports Track.
They have about 30-40 vehicles that are tracked almost daily at speeds well over standard limits. How come these cars are covered under warranty. I know they are, I have seen them in for service at Tom WIlliams Porsche.

GuyR

Mr RS,

Good luck with the PCCB brakes.

The UK OPC price for PCCB discs is £5,500+VAT per disc, so I hope you're right.

The point about cooling and hard use is correct, but the issue is that Porsche themselves sold these brakes as being virtually indestructible and capable of hard-track use (they used these words on the web), they have now changed all their adverts and are down-playing the claims for longevity and use.

As a GT2 owner I have no choice about having PCCB. If I track my car and had steel discs I would accept replacing a pair every so often at a reasonable cost (ie under £1,000 perpair including pads), but find myself worrying about PCCB use given the cost is £14,000 per pair.

Guy

Mr. RS

Guys,

Lets just face it. If you track the car you expect to get some wear.

I have destroyed many a disk on banzai runs around the green and pleasant land that is England.

I expect to destroy a few PCCB disks as well.

If Porsche will not stand by their product, more fool them. If I total the money I have spent on Porsche product in the past 10 years I could quite happily give up this ridiculous life and spend my whole day making posts on this site!!!

You pay your money and you makes your choice.

in 9 days time I will be able to tell you if the £5K was worth it or not. Until then I bid you all a good night.

P.