Some have called it cheating. I say it's for safety.
07-04-2011, 01:12 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vacuuming Cal Speedway
Posts: 7,306
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Apologies for interrupting the avatar discussion
I didn't get an exact quote comparison although the estimated costs seemed similar. I wanted to have the gearbox refreshed anyway and the additional costs of the gear change was similar to the R&P change. My main motivation was that I liked 2nd right where it was as it is ideal for exiting the slower corners at Miller. I also wanted a shorter 3rd and 4th for better acceleration in those gears, I've yet to get into the new 5th although I will soon at the Edmonton Indy track then again at Miller on the full course in September. Here are the gear charts....
I didn't get an exact quote comparison although the estimated costs seemed similar. I wanted to have the gearbox refreshed anyway and the additional costs of the gear change was similar to the R&P change. My main motivation was that I liked 2nd right where it was as it is ideal for exiting the slower corners at Miller. I also wanted a shorter 3rd and 4th for better acceleration in those gears, I've yet to get into the new 5th although I will soon at the Edmonton Indy track then again at Miller on the full course in September. Here are the gear charts....
07-04-2011, 04:10 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
But then comes the next corner, and all is good
07-06-2011, 01:04 AM
#34
Hi guys. Thinking about this mod too. Any experience on how the gearing or r p changes makes a difference on laptimes? My hometrack is Sebring with occasional flings to road Atlanta. Thx.
Mike
Mike
07-06-2011, 09:53 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
I drove both those tracks briefly with a short gearbox (stock R&P) in my Koni car and it was like adding 50hp. Going out on a limb here, but an extra 50hp should help ones lap times significantly.............
The only down side is a LOT more shifting (up and down) and therefore the chance for a rev match error is statistically increased.
The only down side is a LOT more shifting (up and down) and therefore the chance for a rev match error is statistically increased.
07-06-2011, 10:05 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Changes for my car over the winter included the gear change, electric power steering and taking an about 100 lbs out of the car. Plus I had VR smooth out some rough edges on the driver and had some suspension setup changes so not a direct comparison, but I dropped 2.5 seconds off of my Miller west track time. Down from 1:36.1 to 1:33.6. I'm in the sweet spot in the power band all the time now with more even rpm drops between all the gears. Makes it less likely to end up bogging out below the power band at any track.
The other advantage to the gear change IMO is that I'm still in the same gear for all the corners I'm used to but at a higher RPM. I didn't want to be in 4th for a corner I'm used to taking in 3rd...creature of habit
The other advantage to the gear change IMO is that I'm still in the same gear for all the corners I'm used to but at a higher RPM. I didn't want to be in 4th for a corner I'm used to taking in 3rd...creature of habit
07-06-2011, 01:19 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vacuuming Cal Speedway
Posts: 7,306
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Changes for my car over the winter included the gear change, electric power steering and taking an about 100 lbs out of the car. Plus I had VR smooth out some rough edges on the driver and had some suspension setup changes so not a direct comparison, but I dropped 2.5 seconds off of my Miller west track time. Down from 1:36.1 to 1:33.6. I'm in the sweet spot in the power band all the time now with more even rpm drops between all the gears. Makes it less likely to end up bogging out below the power band at any track.
The other advantage to the gear change IMO is that I'm still in the same gear for all the corners I'm used to but at a higher RPM. I didn't want to be in 4th for a corner I'm used to taking in 3rd...creature of habit
The other advantage to the gear change IMO is that I'm still in the same gear for all the corners I'm used to but at a higher RPM. I didn't want to be in 4th for a corner I'm used to taking in 3rd...creature of habit
07-06-2011, 04:14 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Electric powersteering...
Always been interested in this as I believe the 6 cups had it. What was involved in changing it and what was the cost if you don't mind me asking? Did you lose much feel?
Always been interested in this as I believe the 6 cups had it. What was involved in changing it and what was the cost if you don't mind me asking? Did you lose much feel?
07-07-2011, 12:14 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
JRG, just came back from a Speed Ventures weekend at Laguna with the transport truck full of DE cars so not doing the POC event this year. Still don't have my car down to 92 db but have replaced all the paint that melted off the rear bumper during last year's attempt
PMNA electric pump was about $1k...will have to look up the bill for labor but it wasn't that bad. The conversion was done as part of an all winter project which included the gearbox, taking all the suspension off and checking for cracks and replacing all the bearings, dyno and rebuild shocks, new windshield, engine out, seat brace, engine dyno + software, CF doors, plus plus plus all paid for on one awesome invoice...so I'd have to go back and sort out what the exact figure was. I don't notice any difference in feel...seems bit quicker but it was 5 months between driving with the different pumps so not a back to back comparison.
The battery in the picture has been removed and a smaller one is now beside the pump....
PMNA electric pump was about $1k...will have to look up the bill for labor but it wasn't that bad. The conversion was done as part of an all winter project which included the gearbox, taking all the suspension off and checking for cracks and replacing all the bearings, dyno and rebuild shocks, new windshield, engine out, seat brace, engine dyno + software, CF doors, plus plus plus all paid for on one awesome invoice...so I'd have to go back and sort out what the exact figure was. I don't notice any difference in feel...seems bit quicker but it was 5 months between driving with the different pumps so not a back to back comparison.
The battery in the picture has been removed and a smaller one is now beside the pump....
07-07-2011, 01:15 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
07-07-2011, 10:47 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Mike.....I don't and the car is a long way away but I will be going down to pick it up in a week or so. I can take some more pictures then.
The pump has an off/on switch on the dash and will operate with just the master power switch turned on...convenient for pushing the car around the shop. We have added an overflow container to the fluid reservoir....
The pump has an off/on switch on the dash and will operate with just the master power switch turned on...convenient for pushing the car around the shop. We have added an overflow container to the fluid reservoir....
07-07-2011, 01:08 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
I had a fitting come loose after a spin on the mechanical pump last year and it sprayed oil all over the engine compartment. I decided it was a good idea to get that potential problem out of the engine compartment with the added benefit of slightly adjusting the weight end to end, apparently +7HP, and less rotating mass for the engine to spin. I saw an early 996 at Spring Mountain in February and it had a Toyota electric pump....looked like quite a nice installation. Necessary due to the installation of the V8!
07-28-2011, 01:12 PM
#45
Race Director
Thread Starter
Box is in with a new LWFW. Had to replace the pressure plate as well.
It's noisier. Whines under acceleration.
Will definitely pull better.
Fuel economy in 6th is long gone.
It's noisier. Whines under acceleration.
Will definitely pull better.
Fuel economy in 6th is long gone.