Shark Werks 3.9 996 GT3 in Upcoming Total 911 Magazine
#17
Three Wheelin'
I agree with you 100%. My only concern is that with constant track duty, these motors will all need a rebuild eventually. What does a stock rebuild run? I have no idea but I'm sure it is at least $10k if not a fair bit more. I'm really curious what the price difference is between this and a 3.9 conversion.
Last edited by Porsche917K; 04-04-2011 at 12:22 PM.
#20
#21
Rennlist Member
A LOT of it is labor hours. The pistons/sleeves/pins aren't expensive and available from numerous sources. Doing a 4.0 is even more time intensive as you have to split the case and machine the cylinders/case.
#22
Man, one thing I'm gonna miss about the C5Z is the power/$ ratio of the mods. My Z had a head/cam and 477rwhp. Blow that motor up and then have VetteDoctors or ECS build a monster 500rwhp/500rwtq for about the same as a 100cc increase in the GT3. Meh...for $30K I'd have an LS7 installed in the rear-seat area of the GT3. That'd solve the RMS issues...
#23
A LOT means different things to different people. What's A LOT of labor? Cost/hr of that labor?
Last edited by ace996; 05-06-2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason: ...bs...
#25
#26
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Hi guys,
Sorry I meant to reply to this again but it's been pretty busy here lately.
To answer some of your questions, we had not intended this upgrade for everyone and we originally designed / planned the 3.9L for the 997 GT3 cars, which if you're calculating bang-for-the-buck, the same priced upgrades on a 997 GT3 would be a better value simply because those cars are still selling for a bit more at this point. There are surely non-Porsche motors that are cheaper than our cost to upgrade to 3.9, I imagine you can even buy a V8 for these cars for the price of a stock clutch+flywheel.
None of this is worth the money, IMO -- it's more about having the most N/A power without replacing your car, the only other N/A Porsches I'm aware of that have more power are the recently announced $185K 4.0 special edition GT3 or a Carrera GT.
But as far as I know, no other 3.9L N/A Porsche motor upgrade for these cars on the market makes the same horsepower/tq as the 3.9L we put in our cars, and the most affordable competitor was charging upwards of 26,000+ Euros ($37,700 USD or ~$30k for parts only) last time I looked, not including a tb/plenum, camshafts or case work (and we throw in a free rubber shark and t shirt! ). Considering that, I do believe our pricing was fair, though it's up to the owners of these cars to determine what is worth it / fair value, I certainly WOULD NOT buy a 3.9L if I owned a 997 GT3/996 GT3 myself, I'd stick with the 3.6 though strictly out of budget (the 3.9L is good fun if I could personally afford it... Alex, can you give me a raise? ).
Currently I estimate the cost for our 3.9L builds at $25k to $29k USD depending on what is replaced and changed in the process, what is already on the car, etc. Yes the parts are expensive (price out rod bolts for a GT3 for example), and the process takes 60-75 hours (generally we allocate 4-5 weeks of time to be sure we can complete and test the car thoroughly before delivering to our customers). Our price includes the removal of the engine/trans from the GT3, tearing it down to a case (more labor involved if we are replacing the rod bearings and bolts which is recommended for most ~20k mile+ cars, this requires splitting the case and removing the crankshaft etc.), replacing the pistons and liners, camshafts, all gaskets and several OEM bolts/hardware components, flywheel, clutch, software, 997 GT3 throttle body, IPD competition Plenum, and exhaust. Then reinstalling everything, break-in and testing and the first oil change.
Again, comparing 997 GT3 to 996, but some GT3 owners spend $12,000 on an exhaust alone for very small power gains -- nothing like the gains seen with this kind of upgrade we do, for anyone it's relative and in this case I think there's no way to make more power for the same money, except perhaps converting your 996 GT3 to a 996 Turbo motor... but that's a different beast.
I think a factory refresh is around $25,000 (someone can confirm this possibly) which includes the new top end and labor, so if you're heading that route the bump in displacement seems like a good alternative.
Sorry I meant to reply to this again but it's been pretty busy here lately.
To answer some of your questions, we had not intended this upgrade for everyone and we originally designed / planned the 3.9L for the 997 GT3 cars, which if you're calculating bang-for-the-buck, the same priced upgrades on a 997 GT3 would be a better value simply because those cars are still selling for a bit more at this point. There are surely non-Porsche motors that are cheaper than our cost to upgrade to 3.9, I imagine you can even buy a V8 for these cars for the price of a stock clutch+flywheel.
None of this is worth the money, IMO -- it's more about having the most N/A power without replacing your car, the only other N/A Porsches I'm aware of that have more power are the recently announced $185K 4.0 special edition GT3 or a Carrera GT.
But as far as I know, no other 3.9L N/A Porsche motor upgrade for these cars on the market makes the same horsepower/tq as the 3.9L we put in our cars, and the most affordable competitor was charging upwards of 26,000+ Euros ($37,700 USD or ~$30k for parts only) last time I looked, not including a tb/plenum, camshafts or case work (and we throw in a free rubber shark and t shirt! ). Considering that, I do believe our pricing was fair, though it's up to the owners of these cars to determine what is worth it / fair value, I certainly WOULD NOT buy a 3.9L if I owned a 997 GT3/996 GT3 myself, I'd stick with the 3.6 though strictly out of budget (the 3.9L is good fun if I could personally afford it... Alex, can you give me a raise? ).
Currently I estimate the cost for our 3.9L builds at $25k to $29k USD depending on what is replaced and changed in the process, what is already on the car, etc. Yes the parts are expensive (price out rod bolts for a GT3 for example), and the process takes 60-75 hours (generally we allocate 4-5 weeks of time to be sure we can complete and test the car thoroughly before delivering to our customers). Our price includes the removal of the engine/trans from the GT3, tearing it down to a case (more labor involved if we are replacing the rod bearings and bolts which is recommended for most ~20k mile+ cars, this requires splitting the case and removing the crankshaft etc.), replacing the pistons and liners, camshafts, all gaskets and several OEM bolts/hardware components, flywheel, clutch, software, 997 GT3 throttle body, IPD competition Plenum, and exhaust. Then reinstalling everything, break-in and testing and the first oil change.
Again, comparing 997 GT3 to 996, but some GT3 owners spend $12,000 on an exhaust alone for very small power gains -- nothing like the gains seen with this kind of upgrade we do, for anyone it's relative and in this case I think there's no way to make more power for the same money, except perhaps converting your 996 GT3 to a 996 Turbo motor... but that's a different beast.
I think a factory refresh is around $25,000 (someone can confirm this possibly) which includes the new top end and labor, so if you're heading that route the bump in displacement seems like a good alternative.
__________________
Dan Kennedy
SharkWerks: www.sharkwerks.com
Northern California's Porsche Performance, & authorized Evolution Motorsports, TechArt, HRE and Tubi, Cargraphic dealer and installation center
Phone: 510-651-0300
Email: dan@sharkwerks.com
SharkWerks' Latest Updates on Twitter
Dan Kennedy
SharkWerks: www.sharkwerks.com
Northern California's Porsche Performance, & authorized Evolution Motorsports, TechArt, HRE and Tubi, Cargraphic dealer and installation center
Phone: 510-651-0300
Email: dan@sharkwerks.com
SharkWerks' Latest Updates on Twitter
Last edited by Dan@SharkWerks; 05-06-2011 at 05:07 PM.
#29
Rennlist Member
I saw the piece in Total 911, didn't put 2 + 2 together until I saw this thread.
Good work!
Good work!
#30
Thanks Dan - that is pretty much what I personally wanted to know. And you're right, once the motor begins to drop off and you feel a rebuild is coming on for a similar type of money this is a good upgrade!